Raise the Bar

TME 10 | Travel Like a Billionaire: The 90% Off Secret to a First-Class Lifestyle with Eli Facenda

In this episode, Eli Facenda shares his expertise on maximizing travel experiences through the strategic use of points and credit cards. Eli Facenda discusses his nomadic lifestyle and the entrepreneurial journey that led him to specialize in travel hacking, emphasizing the importance of understanding the value of different points systems.
Eli Facenda highlights the need for a structured approach to travel, focusing on maximizing points, optimizing travel upgrades, and effectively using credit cards to enhance experiences. He also shares insights on the significance of having a clear strategy for business owners and navigating the complexities of travel rewards.
Throughout the discussion, Eli Facenda emphasizes the role of community in travel planning, innovative solutions for entrepreneurs, and the concept of experiential wealth. He provides actionable steps listeners can take to improve their travel experiences while building a lifestyle that balances adventure and strategy.
Links to Watch and Subscribe:
https://youtu.be/c7QqSscsajc
Bullet Point Highlights:
Seth and Eli kick off with casual banter about van life, audio gear, and the nomad lifestyle.
Eli shares his background going from broke entrepreneur to travel-hacking expert.
He explains how he got obsessed with using points after a free trip to Thailand changed his mindset.
Eli now helps entrepreneurs take $20K–$50K luxury trips for 90% off using credit card points.His 3-part system includes maximizing points, optimizing travel perks, and redeeming for bucket-list trips.
He gives a real-world example of booking a $20K ANA business class flight to Japan for just $12.
Seth dives into a real-life org structure and Eli explains how points flow to the guarantor, not the LLC.
Best practice: 2–3 business cards and 2–3 personal cards tailored to your biggest spend categories.
Eli introduces his new “DreamTrip Alert System” that delivers full trip itineraries at massive discounts.
In the Million Dollar Monday segment, Eli shares how he made, lost, and remade his first million.
His next million will come from scalable digital products and a wider reach through content and community.
What makes Eli top 1%: He walks the walk, traveling the world and running a business around it.
His #1 tip: Pick your dream trip, put it on the calendar, and commit, then let the how figure itself out.
Transcript:
Eli Facenda (00:00.059)
What's up, Seth?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:01.43)
Yo, what's going on, brother?
 
Eli Facenda (00:03.237)
How we doing, man? How we doing?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:05.141)
Excellent man, what's happening?
 
Eli Facenda (00:06.893)
Not much. you, how's the audio coming through here?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:11.032)
Sounds good, sounds good.
 
Eli Facenda (00:12.547)
it clean? Okay, because I'm, it's basically we're in the middle of a Nomad trip here, so I normally have like a, like a shirt mic like you have, but on the road I haven't had, so I haven't had to test this yet, but I figured the DJI's are pretty solid, so I wanna make sure it's actually coming through decent.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:16.962)
Okay.
 
Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:26.732)
Nice. Yeah, no, it sounds good. Sounds good, man.
 
Eli Facenda (00:29.425)
Okay, cool, awesome. Awesome Dave, we'll get to connect with you.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:33.802)
Yeah, brother definitely, so I don't butcher it. How do you pronounce your last name? Facenda, okay, cool. Cool Awesome, man. Yeah, we've we've crossed paths on social media. I think or maybe our va's have crossed paths who knows
 
Eli Facenda (00:39.077)
for sender. Yep, yep.
 
Eli Facenda (00:47.663)
Yeah, think that was where, yeah, think we were initially connecting, yeah, totally. Instagram, I think, was the place. Yeah. Because you're out in California, right? Nice, I'm in West Palm right now. And I mean, normally based in Austin, but we're in the middle of a like, six to eight month nomad adventure. And so we are, we're on the road here, and we go to Europe in a few weeks for like the next several months.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:53.42)
Yeah, nice, nice, where you at right now? Yep, San Diego.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (01:10.446)
Sweet dude.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (01:17.166)
That's awesome dude, awesome, awesome. Love it man, that's a long time. So we did last May we did, man it's been like a year, geez. We did like 30, 33 days in a van trip. So we took our van up through Wyoming into Montana and into Canada. That was a long time for us, but 68 months. Right, yeah.
 
Eli Facenda (01:18.117)
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, man.
 
Eli Facenda (01:33.455)
Nice.
 
Eli Facenda (01:37.465)
sick. Yeah, well vans are intense too. You know, I haven't done van life but my fiance, she did that before and it was like a lot for her. But yeah, so totally depends on the way you're traveling as well. Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (01:47.266)
Yeah.
 
Nice, nice. Cool, man. Just give you a quick rundown. our audience, my audience is typically, so it used to be passive investors, right? So it used to be the passive income attorney podcast. I think when we might've tried to schedule before and that was for investors. So accredited investors trying to get them to invest in my commercial real estate deals, that sort of thing. But now I've rebranded to raising the bar, which is more geared towards active investors and entrepreneurs and folks like that. So still,
 
Eli Facenda (02:10.619)
Mm-hmm.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (02:19.982)
Still, I'm sure your clients, wealthy folks that are starting businesses, that have businesses, that are raising capital for real estate or private equity or other types of businesses, that sort of thing. And then we'll do about, we'll do it a little on the shorter side. So we'll do about 30 minute interview, probably at the longest. And then we'll kind of just close that out. And then I do two little smaller sections that I break down into like little five minute episodes. One is a million dollar.
 
Eli Facenda (02:25.403)
Totally.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (02:49.622)
Monday I put that in the notes and it's basically just like real quick, like how you made your first million dollars, how you made your last million, how you plan on making your next million. then, yeah, and then the last one is the top 1%. Basically just kind of what separates you and makes you the top 1 % in what you do.
 
Eli Facenda (02:59.675)
Cool. Yeah, I love it. It's great.
 
Eli Facenda (03:08.699)
Okay, beautiful. And then as far as, is there any place you want me to point people that is connected to you or do you care if you're asking about that? I don't have any hard call to action kind of pitch thing, but it's more just like.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (03:19.916)
No, man, whatever, it's up to you, man, whatever you want to do, whatever you, whatever call it action you want to use, if want to send it to your website or social media, whatever you want to do,
 
Eli Facenda (03:26.577)
Cause you know what we do have, I can do this. We have a pretty cool playbook that's normally 150 bucks and I'm happy to give it to your listeners for free. So I could give them a code, just say what would be the best code for that?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (03:37.175)
Okay, awesome.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (03:43.429)
Um, just raise would probably be good. use that a lot for like call to action, like DME raise. So you could use a raise.
 
Eli Facenda (03:46.161)
Cool. All right, so yeah, so I'll just say go to the website and just DM or just put in the code RAYS and you'll get it for free. But it's like a whole playbook on how to maximize points for trips. I've act like legitimately I've had someone buy it and within 48 hours he texted me a screenshot. was like, dude, I just saved 20 grand on a trip from your ebook. And I was like, wow, okay, it works. So it's good. Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (03:57.07)
Sweet.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (04:09.366)
Nice, Cool. All right, man, well, we're already recording, so I'll just jump right in, and then if I need to add anything to the beginning, I'll do that later. And cool, man, yeah, we'll just jump right in.
 
Eli Facenda (04:14.129)
Sweet. You're welcome.
 
Eli Facenda (04:20.27)
Awesome.
 
Eli Facenda (04:24.913)
Let's do it.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (04:27.444)
Eli, what's going on, brother? Welcome to the show.
 
Eli Facenda (04:30.181)
Thank you man, excited to be here and I we're going coast to coast today so this will be good.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (04:34.382)
Absolutely, man. So we chatted beforehand, but I think you're tuning in on a road trip right now. So you're living proof of what you do, right?
 
Eli Facenda (04:44.065)
Yeah, totally. are, well this part's kind of like a road trip. We're in West Palm Beach right now, but this is basically leg number two out of, we'll end up being probably an eight month nomadic adventure with me and my fiance and our little puppy. And so we're in West Palm Beach right now in Florida. We head to Europe in less than a month and we'll be bouncing around different parts of Europe for about four months roughly before we decide where we're gonna go next, which we're not exactly sure.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (04:58.904)
Nice.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (05:12.28)
That's awesome, man. Are you using all your hacks and secrets and travel tips that you put out there?
 
Eli Facenda (05:18.449)
Absolutely, yeah, 100%. I mean, we just got back from a crazy trip to Japan. This was really cool. I run an entrepreneur mastermind. So we integrated our own trip around Japan around this mastermind event. So I had 53 people come out for like eight days. We went snowboarding in the mountains in Niseko in the Northern Park. And then we went down to Tokyo for the cherry blossoms. But for myself personally, to get there and back and do a lot of the hotels, we used points. We saved over 50 grand just on that portion of the trip. We then...
 
know, flew down to West Palm on points and then going over to Europe and a lot of the stays over there will also be leveraging the point strategies that I help clients use and then I talk about on social media and the stuff that we'll dive into today. But yeah, I like to be living proof of it because it's pretty awesome. It's something that's really impacted my life. I love doing it. And when I do it, I get to share it too. So has like a multiple benefit for everybody.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (06:06.648)
That's awesome, man. I'm excited, dude. I'm excited to dig in here, because it's just for my own personal benefit and education, because I'm super stoked about this stuff, and I travel a lot with my fiance, or my fiance, my wife, and it's something I'm personally interested in as well. We've had past conversations too, so it's great to have you on, man. So just to start off, man, if somebody, you meet somebody in the street, they ask you what you do, how do you explain that?
 
in a sentence, right? Like without going into some crazy like tangent about all the awesome things that you do. Like what, how do you answer that question?
 
Eli Facenda (06:36.453)
Yeah.
 
Eli Facenda (06:41.329)
Sure, sure, Yeah, it really does depend on the situation, but I oftentimes will ask a couple questions because it makes it easier for people to understand. So usually it's like, do you have any big dream bucket list trip you've ever wanted to take? And they'll be like, oh yeah, Greece. I'm like, well, what we do is we help you get to Greece in business or first class, stay in five star hotels, have the trip of your dreams at about 90 % off. So that's kind of the tagline is take the trip of your dreams for about 90 % off.
 
I'll get into the whole point side of things, but some people don't know what points are, or some are really well studied in that world. So I just leave with the trip because that's usually what people want. They want to have the experience where it's you and your wife flying first class, sipping champagne on the way to Paris to go see the Eiffel Tower and the points and the credit cards. That's really the mechanism. That's how we make the experience happen. But at end of the day, what we want is the amazing memories, the beautiful experience, all that stuff. So I leave with the trip when I talk about it.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (07:37.848)
That's awesome, man. Yeah, I mean, you're literally selling the dream, right? Like in marketing, you sell the dream or hit on a pain point. Like you are like the quintessential selling the dream. Like that's what everybody thinks about. So.
 
Eli Facenda (07:42.969)
Yeah, exactly.
 
Yeah, Right. Well, it's funny because, you know, in marketing, they'll say like, sell the destination, not the vehicle, right? They'll be like, sell the outcome, not how you get there. And so we do that in our marketing. But then when you think about it, when people are taking a trip, what we are helping them do is make the vehicle to get to the destination part of the destination. Because really, when you travel well, and you do it in style, the flight becomes a part of the trip that you're excited for.
 
I can't wait to see the the drinks and the champagne and the food they're gonna have and how awesome the seat is and the movie selection, how big's the screen. At least for people that love to travel, it becomes a fascination of the trip, not just getting there. So that's a big difference maker when people start to go on these flights, and this is what a lot of our clients will say, and for me, it goes from flying economy to like, I'm counting down the hours to get off this freaking plane.
 
to like, we do another lap around the city? Cause like, I'd love to just hang out here longer, right? And like the flight attendants treat you really well. So yeah, it's a whole experience.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (08:49.314)
That's awesome, man. Yeah, that's great. Was there a trip that you went on personally where you just kind of thought, man, I can turn this into a business, right? Like you're just enjoying it so much that you just were like, like the light bulb went off or how did this business spawn?
 
Eli Facenda (09:04.515)
Yeah, there wasn't one trip that I made the connection between like, trip is awesome, let me start a business. But there was one trip that gave me the light bulb of, my God, I am obsessed with this, I need to learn everything I can. There was zero intention or thought about business that when it first started. And that'll take you back about 10 years. So was around 22 years old and I'm just coming out of college. And basically I'm in my mom's basement and I remember this really...
 
like heavy feeling because I went to a good university near New York City and all my friends went to Wall Street and they were making like six figures plus right out of school. And I had this like entrepreneurial bug. I was like, that's not for me. I don't want to sit in an office. I don't care if I can make a lot of money. I want to like play life on my terms, even if it means I'm making less. So at this point I have friends that are making tons of money, know, lots of disposable income and I'm making like 20 grand a year. I'm working four side jobs. I was trying to build a company. I remember getting this text.
 
And my stomach just dropped, because I was like, shit, I'm going to miss out on this incredible experience. was friends inviting me to go to Thailand. And I was like, if I don't figure out a better strategy of either how to make more money or figure something out, I'm not going be able to go on this trip. And I was like, damn, this is going to be just a life of missing out on experiences. Is that what it means to follow my dreams with entrepreneurship? It's like, I have to forego everything that my other friends are doing. And so was like, let me think about this differently. And I had a mentor that told me, you don't need more money, you need a better strategy. And he was talking about growing a business.
 
But for me, I was like, oh wait, there's this credit card point thing. What if I could figure that out? So I ended up piecing it together. I got a trip to Thailand for free. I had this amazing experience with some of my best friends. It's like still, you know, 13 friends in Thailand at age like 22, 23. Memories you don't get back. So was really grateful to have that. And then I came back from that trip and I got another flight a few, probably a year later to Europe in business class where it was a $6,000 ticket that I paid $6 for. Now after that one,
 
I came off that flight and I was like, I will read every blog, I will watch every YouTube video, I will learn everything about this because it meant I could travel the world and have this incredible lifestyle without having to go take a corporate job. So was like, I get to have my entrepreneurial dream and the travel I want without any trade-offs and I was like, this is amazing. So that was my first time I got hooked. It took me years of researching and reading blogs and websites and doing stuff for myself before I even had the thought of helping anyone else. I just became obsessed with it on my own.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (11:27.086)
I love that you recognize you had the entrepreneurial bug early on, right? Before you got drugged down into the corporate ladder and then you got the golden handcuffs, we like to call it, and that sort of thing where it gets much, much harder to escape that gravity. I know for myself, it took a really long time. ended up going to, I went to med school, then I got my MBA, and then I went to law school, and then I worked in a big law firm, and it just took me all this time to figure out like, I don't want this.
 
Eli Facenda (11:38.405)
Yeah.
 
Eli Facenda (11:49.201)
Mm.
 
Eli Facenda (11:56.763)
Right, well the social pressure alone of like everyone year round is going one way, it takes a lot of guts for you to zig when everyone else is zagging, like it's not easy to do. Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (11:57.015)
And I think it's.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (12:06.648)
For sure, for sure. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough, right? And especially when you see your friends making six figures right out of college, you're like, man, I could do that right now if I wanted to do it, but I don't want that. So it takes guts to be able to go out there and do your own thing.
 
Eli Facenda (12:21.873)
Totally. And I think everyone has their own version of that still. There's even vert flavors of that today that are still existing for me where it's like, everyone's kinda going this way, but when I really get quiet and listen to myself, I'm like, yeah, you could do that, but you actually, what your soul or your heart really wants is to go over here. And so I've always just tried to listen to that more because I think about one of my North stars is, at the end of my life, I'm 80, 90 years old, I do the rocking chair test and look back, it's like,
 
What regret would I rather not have when I'm 90? I'd always rather be like I bet on myself than like I took the sure, you know, the well-paid path, which is the old cliche, but I think it's really true.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (13:01.004)
Totally, I love that North Star, man. Have you ever asked ChatGBT to give you advice as your 80 or 90 year old self on your deathbed? It's great. Yeah. I love it, man. I love it. Yeah, it's great. It you great insight. You start reading, you're like, this is good.
 
Eli Facenda (13:07.409)
Yeah, yeah, I actually created a custom GPT and it's my future me that coaches current me. yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
 
Right. Exactly. Yeah, totally.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (13:21.326)
Awesome man, well let's get back kind of on the business of travel, right? So somebody comes to you, they do that introduction that we talked about, you get in a deeper conversation, they're super interested in it, they wanna learn more about these travel hacks and strategies, like where do they start? Where do you point them?
 
Eli Facenda (13:42.447)
Yeah, so in terms of the process, I like to chunk it into three main buckets.
 
And it's important to have context around this game because if you don't, it just starts to feel like there's so many moving pieces and who has time for that and it's too confusing and then it becomes overwhelming and overwhelm just basically leads to an action. And then that is the person who's like, well, I just don't wanna do that, I'll just take a cash back card or I'll just stick to my Delta card, right? And so when you have the right context, you can start to understand the highest leverage moves to make and then you know really how to get the result you want with the least amount of effort. So that's what we focus on and specifically like I've worked with
 
probably over a thousand business owners now. And with business owners, investors and entrepreneurs, it's a different, the points game takes on a different context, right? Because usually the constraint we have to solve for is time and complexity. And if you work a nine to five, you know, after five o'clock, you've got hours for your night. But entrepreneurs, it's like every hour is kind of an asset that you can use. So it's a little bit different. So the three buckets are, the first one is to maximize the points that you earn. So this happens from getting the right cards and the right expenses.
 
because all of these different points are like currency, so you wanna earn the right type of points and then you wanna maximize the amount of them by getting the right cards and the right expenses. So that's the first piece and that's really, really key, because nothing else happens if you don't get that right. The second bucket is gonna be to upgrade and optimize your travel. So you've got domestic trips for a conference, are you getting TSA pre-check and clear, are you getting the best lounges, are you getting first class upgrades and free bags and hotel suite upgrades and free breakfast at the hotels and free wifi. Really it's just like,
 
There's all these opportunities available for people that are traveling domestically for work, for family events, you know, your kind of ordinary traveling might have. And what we want to do is we just want to enhance the quality of all of that and reduce all the headaches and annoyances by maximizing benefits on cards and status perks and all the kind of like little tactics that you can play. So that's the second thing that just makes your travel more comfortable. And then the third bucket, which is really the most important in terms of impact in your life and the most meaningful piece is to take your dream bucket list trips for 70 to 90 % off.
 
Eli Facenda (15:45.775)
And so that's where you're gonna take the points you've accumulated. You're gonna use some strategies that I can break down here around transferring these points from the banks to the airlines and hotels, and you're gonna get these dream trips for literally a fraction of what they should cost if you're paying cash, or compared to if you were using your points through a site like Amex Travel or Capital & Travel or Chase Travel. Okay, so that's a mouthful, but those are the three. So maximize your points, get the best possible upgrades, and then take your dream trips for 90 % off.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (16:13.934)
Yeah, dive into one of those little those connecting strategies there that you mentioned.
 
Eli Facenda (16:19.183)
Yeah. Yeah. So I'll talk first about the cards. That's the order. This is the first mistake that most business owners and individuals are making is they're just getting random cards. They're like, well, I live in Dallas. Let me get the American card or live in Atlanta. So I'll get the Delta card or, whatever it may be. Or live in San Diego and I fly domestic. So I'll just get the Southwest card. Well, they don't realize is that again, these points, these points like currencies. And so if I told you, Hey, do you want 150 Mexican pesos or 150 us dollars for your couch that you're selling on Facebook marketplace?
 
you're obviously gonna take the US dollars, right? Because the currency is much higher. But with points, people don't realize that. So they might be racking up Hilton points or Delta miles or other points and miles that just aren't as valuable as other ones out there. And then they burn through them quick or they don't go as far. And they end up just basically sitting there being like, I feel like I should be getting more. This is the common thing I hear. I feel like this should be taking me further, but like it's not doing much. And so what we wanna focus on is bank points that are transferable. So certain banks,
 
have this ability to convert the points to the airline hotel loyalty programs. And what happens is the banks have a different way of pricing than the airlines do. And certain airlines and certain hotels have really good what we call sweet spots or opportunities for you to get the best possible deals. Okay, so when you earn these effective points, which the top ones I recommend are generally Amex, Chase, and Capital One, and there's a new program built actually is out where you can put your rent on a card with no fees and earn points, it's really cool. But when you get those right,
 
And then you look through your expenses and you say, what do I spend the most on? Is it groceries and dining and the personal side? Cool. There's a card like the Amex Gold that is specifically really good for those types of expenses. Then you look at your business. What do I spend a lot on? Is it ads and software and taking clients out for dinners? Great. The Amex Business Gold earns four points per dollar on those categories, but maybe it's you're spending a lot on flights for company travel, or maybe you have inventory you're buying, or you're paying a lot of contractors, or you have a lot of payroll. You want to assess where you're spending the most money.
 
and make sure you have the optimal card lined up for that type of expense. So I'll pause there, but that's kind of the first bucket. The other one is on using the points effectively, which I can talk about too, is pretty powerful. But that first one is really the linchpin. Because if you have a bunch of Delta miles and you want to go to Europe, I'll give an example actually one more before I kind of pause. There was an example recently I saw of a client and they wanted to go to Europe and we're looking at different options. This was from JFK to Amsterdam. If you have Delta miles,
 
Eli Facenda (18:43.547)
The ticket for Delta One, this big awesome Delta Suite, was 320,000 miles. That's what Delta was charging to go from JFK to Amsterdam. It's really expensive amount of miles. But the same exact flight, like same flight number, same aircraft, everything, if you booked it through Virgin Atlantic, it was 50,000 miles. One seventh of the amount almost. It's really, really big difference. And so here's the kicker, right? If you have a Delta card, you only earn Delta miles, so you have to pay the 320,000.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (18:46.765)
Mm-hmm.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (19:02.124)
Hmm.
 
Eli Facenda (19:12.497)
but if you had an Amex card that earned Amex points, so like the Amex gold or business gold, you could actually convert those points into Virgin to book the Delta flight because Virgin and Delta are partners, and you'd pay 50,000 points instead of 320,000. So this is the part where like, for people that kind of get this, they're like, whoa, and the other people are like, what did you just say? So I get it can be, it can be tricky for some people that are just getting to grasp it, but I want to make sure to lay out the whole game so people can understand really what's possible for them.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (19:34.764)
Yeah
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (19:42.329)
Totally, totally. Yeah, it's just, mean, I'm sure people out there listening, it's both, right? Some people know these things exist, but they don't know the extent of it. And you're opening up their minds regardless, right? Like all the possibilities. I think most people are just like, sure, I need to find a great car that has a welcome offer of some sort. That's usually what people look at. And then they just try to pick, perhaps they take it a step further and they're looking to see like what they spend money on the most and they'll...
 
Eli Facenda (19:54.139)
Tour then.
 
Eli Facenda (20:04.443)
Mm-hmm.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (20:11.128)
calibrate that card to that. But you're taking it step further because you know, it's kind of just opening yourself up to knowing all the possibilities, right? All these different connections, where to spend the points, where you can earn the points, those sorts of things. How thick is your wallet, man? Do you have, is your wallet like this and it's got 25 cards in it or what?
 
Eli Facenda (20:19.419)
Totally.
 
Right. Yeah.
 
Eli Facenda (20:28.123)
Haha
 
Yeah. Yeah.
 
Well, caveat this first by saying when we work with clients and we might do recommendations for people, I always recommend if you have a business, two to three personal cards and two to three business cards. That is a simple way to set this up. That's only four to six cards across both things. That's enough where you're really gonna get some serious ROI, but it's not so much that's really complicated. Some people are kind of curmudgeoned about it, like I only want one card. And I'm like, that's fine. There's no right or wrong in this. It's really preferential, but you should just know if you do that, you're gonna be leaving for most business owners that spend at least a few thousand a month.
 
that's gonna cost you tens of thousands of dollars of free trips a year. So I'm like, is your simplicity of having one card worth that much? If it is, great, but maybe having a second or third card doesn't add that much complexity. But if you get an extra $30,000 a year trip out of it, probably worth it, right? So that's the first thing. But to answer your actual question, so I have an entire thing called the Credit Man purse. It's like this portfolio binder, and it's just stacked with cards. I mean, I have over 40 credit cards, but I've been doing this for a long time, right? And there's like, here's the thing also with credit.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (21:28.28)
Hahaha
 
Eli Facenda (21:34.041)
A big question, a lot of investors, specifically people that are doing real estate or business owners, really want to their credit clean and we're huge advocates of actually not just keeping your credit score the same but improving it over time. And when you get business cards, they don't show up on your personal credit report. Okay, the vast majority. The inquiry will, but the actual card won't. And some banks, you can actually get multiple cards with no additional inquiries. So like when we do a custom card plan for someone or when we're just recommending it, we're always saying like, make sure to look at which banks you already have relationships with.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (21:48.142)
Mm-hmm.
 
Eli Facenda (22:02.373)
which ones you can get a soft pull from, the order matters of these card applications. But at end of the day, you just want a couple of specific cards that are really gonna be custom built for you, and you don't have to go crazy with it. If you get excited and you're like passionate about it, you can get 10, 15, 20 cards over the course of several years, and if you do it right underneath your businesses, it's not gonna drop your personal credit score. Your personal credit score will actually go up over time.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (22:26.314)
Mm-hmm. That's a good hack, man. I'll get I'm put you on a spot a little bit. I'm gonna explain like what what I see a lot of the people that are probably listen to this show have in place structured wise like organizational structure and it's kind of similar to mine. Mine's probably a lot more complicated, but just to keep it simple, you know, there might be a parent company, right? Like this overhead parent company that owns everything. So let's let's call it parent company, right? And then below the parent company, the parent company owns, let's say a management company.
 
This management company probably manages funds, manages properties, manages equity for investors, that sort of thing. And then they also might have these other businesses, right? Like it just depends on the person. Like for instance, I own gyms and some other, my law firm, things like that. So they might have these own individual operating companies that owns a gym or owns another business or does these other things. you know.
 
Eli Facenda (22:55.889)
Mm-hmm.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (23:20.066)
Based on that structure, so you've got a parent company, you've got a, let's call it an equity management or fund management or property management company, and then you've got kind of this other operating business. How would you structure, what credit cards I guess would you kind of recommend? Not necessarily specific ones, but like, do they need one for all three or, yeah, how would you think about that?
 
Eli Facenda (23:27.301)
Mm-hmm.
 
Eli Facenda (23:36.593)
Yeah, yeah, but how would you think about that? Yeah, totally. I mean, it's a super common question. Like this is exactly the kind of clientele that we work with all the time where they're like, are you sure this is gonna work for me? I have four rental properties, two companies, one holding company. I have an investment thing. I have this thing over here. It's like, yeah, it all works. So simple is the key. So it's always a spectrum too. Like some people are, again, really minimalist with like what they want. we always, like when we're doing this for a client, we custom build it. But.
 
The real recommendation there is we wanna, again, assess which of these companies are actually generating the highest amount of spend. And those are the ones we wanna start with first in terms of cards and really optimizing. Now, if you have a bunch of different companies and they all have a bunch of spend, the first key thing to know is that the points will go to the business owner, the person who personally guaranteed the card, not to the business. So there's no business points account. It's underneath your name, even if it's underneath the LLC.
 
So the points go to you. So if you have like six different companies and you have like three Chase cards and three Amex cards, all of those three Chase cards and all of those three Amex cards are gonna basically funnel up to your account, okay? So that keeps it simple in terms of how you can think about accruing these points. They're not gonna be scattered everywhere where you can't use them. So that's good to know. Same with the airlines, right? doesn't matter if it's an airline or a bank card. So that's the first thing. For these management companies, usually lot of them don't have much spend.
 
So what we'll tend to do is just get one card that is like a catch-all card. And so this would be a card that we want to have earn around 1.5 to two points per dollar spent. Because what we've done is we've taken the floor of what you're gonna earn on your everyday spend and we just increase it by 50 to 100%. Okay, so like let's say a parent company is used for some client meetings and some basic legal and admin stuff and it's like 1,500 bucks a month just to do upkeep and normal stuff like that.
 
and it's not a crazy amount of different categories to spend. You're not running ads, you don't have that much software, there's not really a lot travel happening with it. But if that's the case, then what we wanna do is get a card, maybe like the Chase Inc. Unlimited, which earns 1.5x on everything, and we'll say, look, we're gonna keep this simple. That holding company doesn't have a lot of points earning power, so let's make sure we get a card on it just to earn, but we don't wanna like go crazy and get a bunch of cards and try to maximize every dollar. But this company that owns four different gyms and spends...
 
Eli Facenda (25:52.369)
50K a month on equipment and advertising and payroll and all this stuff, that's the company where we wanna look to get maybe two or three cards that are specifically aligned with that business to spend because that is where you as an entrepreneur, as an owner, are gonna be generating the most return. It's gonna be from that one entity. So I hope that breaks it down in a way that makes sense, but this is also where, again, having your cards across two to three main banks will keep it relatively simple because even if you have four different entities, if it's under one Amex login, that makes it nice and easy too.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (26:22.53)
Totally, totally. Awesome, man. I knew you could handle that. Easy, easy peasy. Cool, man. Let's go to number two, right? Using the points effectively. You kind of touched on a little bit of that strategy, but let's jump into that.
 
Eli Facenda (26:26.682)
Easy basic.
 
Eli Facenda (26:32.709)
Yeah, yeah, so the second thing was optimizing the upgrades and all that. I'll cover that one really quick. If you're going through the airport and you don't have TSA PreCheck and clear and lounge access, you're missing out on some really easy perks that will just make your life way more enjoyable. So that's the first thing. There's a lot you can do with hotel upgrades and status. So like when I travel and go to Miami tonight for a conference, I have status at Hyatt. I'm staying at Hyatt for two of the nights down here.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (26:39.628)
Okay.
 
Eli Facenda (27:02.225)
I probably would get upgraded to a suite that's worth like thousand to 1500 bucks a night because I know how to use the suite and I certificate, it's my globalist status, I know how to message the hotel the right way. So there's some strategies there where if you do that, whenever you're traveling, you just get a much better experience. You get early check-in, late check-out, the free suite upgrade, much more spacious room. A lot of times they have lounges at the property like when we were in Tokyo, a bunch of us stayed at the Grand Hyatt there. They had a beautiful lounge overlooking the city. They had breakfast every morning.
 
They had drinks all day. They had a great lounge area. We actually had a mastermind session in there and they like a 15 person breakout room for us to go to. It cost us $0 to use it. They had afternoon drinks and stuff like that. So these are just the things that make your travel much better. So small tweaks that over time just again, make it a much more enjoyable experience. But that bucket on how you use your points, this is one of the most critical pieces. And I've already kind of alluded to it with that Delta One example, but
 
I'll share another one. So on the way to Japan, right, we flew ANA business class. This is all Nippon. It's one of the premier airlines in the world for international business class travel. They actually have a seat called The Room because it's so spacious and big, your own big sliding door. They have like an omakase menu. You've got ramen, champagne. It's like really, really good. Amazing sake and green tea and all this good stuff.
 
It was like an incredible way to fly and you know, it's an 11 hour flight and I didn't sleep a wink because I was just eating the whole time. But here's the deal, right? So that flight for my fiance and I, it would have been $20,000 for the two of us. It's 10,000 a piece. Okay, San Francisco to Tokyo. We're going in peak season, mind you. So I have three options to book that flight. I pay cash for it, which you know, I do decent in business, but I'm not dropping 20 grand on flights.
 
just to get to Japan, like that's out, that's way out of my bucket of what I would ever want to do. The second option, I go to the bank site. Okay, so again, if you have AMEX points, a lot of people have AMEX cards, like the platinum or the gold card, and this is a good start, but when you go to the bank site, each point is worth one penny. Okay, this is the baseline value of a point. So what happens is if you go to AMEX travel, they'll say, okay, this flight would cost, let's call it 20 grand. So 20 grand times one cent for each point equals 2 million points.
 
Eli Facenda (29:20.977)
So my second option would have been to go to Amex's site and pay two million points, which I don't even have. Okay, so I'm like, that wouldn't have even worked, but that's what most people are doing at use points. They're going directly to the bank site and they're booking using Amex travel and they're getting absolutely screwed. Okay. There's kind of, and then there's a third option, which is to go through the airline site. So there's like three A and three B. Three A would be like, again, you only have Delta miles and you're kind of screwed going just to Delta. I don't recommend that. But the last option is what we did.
 
which is where we had Amex points and Chase points, and I looked at my different options and I said, okay, what are the best partner airlines I can book through to get to Japan? Well, it turns out, ANA is a part of the Star Alliance, okay? United is also part of that alliance. Chase and United have a partnership where I could convert my Chase points into United miles. When I looked that up, I ended up finding the deal and there's ways you have to kind of search this and track it, but that same flight that would have cost me two million points,
 
through Amex or Chase travel directly cost me 220,000 points to transfer from Chase to United. And I paid $12 out of Okay, so $20,000 flight, I paid 12 bucks. But how did I do it? I had the right points first. I had enough of them because I had the right cards and the right expenses. I knew how to search for this flight. And then I was able to transfer these points from Chase into the airline. So the hardest part of this entire process
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (30:30.402)
Hmm.
 
Eli Facenda (30:49.413)
is figuring out the points transfers and which partners are the right ones for certain airlines. That gets very nuanced and complicated. It's kind of like, you know, if you were talking to a CPA and someone's trying to explain how like the Augusta rule works, whatever, and like the CPA pulls up like the tax code and is like unveiling this long list of tax jargon. The average person is just like, what, just like tell me how to do it, right? That's kind of the same thing here. There's a lot of different like angles and transfer partners and bonuses and.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (31:12.43)
Right.
 
Eli Facenda (31:17.689)
alliances and partnerships and it gets kind of complicated but that's how it works.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (31:22.434)
Totally, totally. So let's talk about that. how do you help people keep track of that or learn that or execute, I guess, on these strategies?
 
Eli Facenda (31:32.241)
Sure, yeah, so for us, our company really has two main levels to it. So we have a community-based level where it's like you're just getting the fast track, you're getting help from experts. So I'm really good at this, but I'm more of an entrepreneur than a points nerd. So as I built this, initially I was the one on the phone with all the clients, walking everyone through it, and then I built a team. So I found basically some of the other points nerds in the world that I was mind blown by. I knew them from social media and just seeing their stuff, and I was like, that person has their stuff. So I brought them onto the team.
 
And so our clients will interact with both me and them inside of our community, but it's not just points. We're also providing really cool travel experiences. So for example, I posted this, but I'm going kiteboarding in Egypt in June on this epic like entrepreneur kiteboard trip where it's 40 entrepreneurs going to learn how to kiteboard together and masterminding on one. And so I'm attending, I sent it out to our clients and I said, Hey, if you want to come on this, our team will help you plan the flights out there on your point so you can get business class on the way out.
 
So I like to, because ultimately I wanna help people, my mission is to help people create more experiential wealth in their life. There's financial wealth, and a lot of people accumulate dollars, but they're not turning it into experiences. So I'm like, let's create more experiential wealth, and the points are the way to justify it. So we have that community level where you get access to our team, there's calls you can jump on, ways we help you plan trips, and then we have the done for you services, where we basically just handle it for you. That's more like, think of like a travel agency on points for entrepreneurs.
 
That's more of what that is. And in there we'll do the custom card planning and map out what cards you need based off of what your specific spends are and stuff like that. So we do some pretty deep intake. And we kind of are almost like a travel agent. It's a little bit different in some ways, but that's basically the two levels in how we help people.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (33:12.29)
Great, man. I love how you build in the experience, right? Like that's part of it. Like that's what you're teaching anyway. So it's like, it's not like, hey, join this, join this group and then we'll talk about all these things. You're actually doing it. You're actually inviting them to execute on what you're teaching so that they can see it in motion and then they can continue to do it and experience life at a different level.
 
Eli Facenda (33:32.497)
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, like, I really love it too. like, I'm like, everyone that works with us is really, usually a pretty cool person. Like, if you're an entrepreneur and you have the guts to build your own business, and then you wanna travel the world, like by nature of that, you're already probably a pretty cool person. Like the majority of people that are doing that, I think well-traveled people are some of the most interesting people. If you want the best stories in life, like, someone who's traveled the world is gonna have some stories for you. And so when you combine those two, it's like, these are people I wanna hang out with anyways. So like, I'm going on a trip to Egypt. I'm like, come with, like.
 
Whoever in the community wants to come, let's have a party, let's go do it. So it's great thing.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (34:04.994)
That's great. Awesome, man. How are you raising the bar in your life and your business right now? Like what are you doing to build your business further, building off of some of the things that you're offering right now? Where are you taking it to the next level?
 
Eli Facenda (34:18.833)
Yeah, so we have a new project we're rolling out inside of our community, which I'm really excited about, which is even just in our lower tier membership, and it's called our DreamTrip Alert System. So what this is, is when people come in, this has never been done before in the world of points and miles or travel at all. So we're the first to do this, which I'm really excited about. So let's say you were to sign up. You're gonna come in and give us your DreamTrip destinations, the seasons or windows that you could go, the points you have, your home airport, all this stuff.
 
and our team is going through and we're not just finding you like a flight, because there are different alerts out there that'll be like, hey, we found a flight. And it's like, cool, one way from LA to London, but like, what am I gonna do when I'm there? Where am gonna stay? How am getting back? Right, it's like part of the puzzle, but it leaves a lot on you to figure out. And for our clients, most business owners and entrepreneurs, investors, they're too busy to piece all that together. So they're like, well, cool, that doesn't really help me. So we decided to do, we said, what if we...
 
just basically sent people like a mystery subscription box of their dream trips. And so when you come in and you fill that out, we gather it. And then a couple times a month, we're gonna send out alerts where it's like a 30, 40 or $50,000 type trip, somewhere incredible in the world. We're talking Greek islands, Amalfi Coast, Japan, New Zealand, African safaris, Maldives, Bora Bora, places like that, business and first class flights, five star hotels, four pennies on the dollar. So these are like, we get $40,000 trips where people will end up paying a thousand bucks, 1500 bucks, two grand out of pocket.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (35:25.389)
Mm-hmm.
 
Eli Facenda (35:44.337)
And so we're gonna send the entire trip to you. So it's like the flights, the hotels, the entire step-by-step booking, the recommendations on the ground, the entire experience. And so we're sending those out so people come in, they tell us when, where, like the things they wanna do, and then they're just gonna get these alerts where it's like every month they're gonna be like, you you're sitting there with your wife, hey babe, you wanna go to Bora Bora in like June? It's gonna cost us like 800 bucks and it would be a $30,000 trip. It's like that's what I want. That's what I wanna create. So that's us raising the bar in the industry and in our business.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (36:06.35)
you
 
Eli Facenda (36:13.615)
I'm very excited, it's brand new for us, so I'm just pumped to see that continue to roll out, because it's, for me the mission is to help people live with experiential wealth in the form of travel. And so, usually there's some barriers that get in the way. There's time, there's planning, and then there's cost. And what we're trying to do is eliminate as many of those barriers as we can to make it just easier to say yes to the trip.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (36:34.252)
Yeah, man, sign me up, dude. Sign me up. I feel like you've got to get both significant others on your list, right? So they both see it and whoever's like the person is like, we've got to do this, you hit both of them and then they convince the other one to do it.
 
Eli Facenda (36:36.625)
All right.
 
Eli Facenda (36:49.477)
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. There's usually one. There's usually like sometimes it's the husband's on the call and he's like, dude, I don't know where we ever travel. Like I'm gonna pay for this, my wife's gonna do everything or it's the opposite where the guy's like, you know, she just shows up and I tell her where we're going. And so like that's my relationship. I'll be like, you know, it's my industry, my passion. I'm like, we're going here and then here. And she's like, tell me where to be. And she just has no idea where we are and she just loves it. And I'm like, I like planning. So, you know, but it's different for everybody.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (37:11.736)
Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (37:17.144)
For sure, for sure, man. All right, brother, this has been incredible. Tell our audience where they can find out more about you, where they can get involved with all the things, all the incredible things that they've heard on this show. Throw it out there,
 
Eli Facenda (37:28.859)
Totally. Yeah, a couple of main places. So the first thing I'll share is that we have what I call the CEO Points Playbook. This is something I custom built. Took me a long time, and this was not a Chad TBT prompt. Like, I really built this on my own. And it is like a 30 to 40 page playbook that any business owner or entrepreneur can use to really maximize their travel experiences, get better bucket list trips, figure out the right cards for them. And it's normally 150 bucks, but if you go to freedomtravelsystems.com
 
forward slash playbook and you put in the code RAYS, you're gonna get it for free. Okay, so anyone listening, it is free for you. And so that's gonna be freedomtravelsystems.com forward slash playbook and then use the code RAYS, maybe we can put it in the show notes. And so that'll be the first thing. Second place is if you're like just want done for you services, just take off that forward slash and go to freedomtravelsystems.com. can talk to myself and one of the team members. And the last place, I hang out on Instagram and post a lot there, that's where we connected.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (38:14.049)
Absolutely.
 
Eli Facenda (38:27.595)
And that's where I'm sharing the most like behind the scenes and as I'm booking this stuff, as I'm planning it, as I'm showing like what our clients are doing, you get to see more of the visuals and the fun and come along for the ride. And so I love engaging on Instagram as well.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (38:40.27)
Great. Thanks Eli. I really appreciate you coming on the show,
 
Eli Facenda (38:43.973)
Thanks Seth, appreciate you having me on.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (38:45.806)
All right, brother, talk soon.
 
All right, sweet dude. Nice. Yeah, right around 30 minutes. Let's see. Yeah, we'll just jump into these last few questions here.
 
Eli Facenda (38:51.748)
Awesome.
 
Eli Facenda (38:55.205)
Perfect.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (39:03.862)
Welcome to Million Dollar Monday with Eli Fisenda. Let's just jump right in. Hey brother. Yeah, how did you make your first million?
 
Eli Facenda (39:09.243)
Let's do it.
 
Eli Facenda (39:13.499)
So I actually made my first million in a tour company. Now I made the first million, I didn't get to keep the first million, but what we were doing, we were running sports trips all over the world. This is actually part of how I fell in love with the travel industry and the work that I now do with points. And ultimately what we were doing, we were creating these international tour packages for youth sports teams and families to go on these international tours. think of like a 14 year old baseball team in your, you're in San Diego. We'd like do a selection of kids.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (39:19.694)
Sure.
 
Eli Facenda (39:41.329)
from that area and the families would come and they would go to Japan or Italy or wherever and travel for 10 days, experience the culture, have an educational tour and also play the local teams. So we did that in a variety of sports, ice hockey and baseball and lacrosse and all these different sports. And we were growing a lot and then that was ramping right until COVID and that just decimated the entire business. we took us about two years to get to a million and then we started to double almost every year for a few years and that was like.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (40:02.432)
Mm.
 
Eli Facenda (40:09.399)
Really, really tough break at COVID, but that was the first million.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (40:11.63)
COVID man. Nobody saw that coming. mean.
 
Eli Facenda (40:13.881)
No, definitely, you know, group, large, large group sports international travel was like the worst potential. Like you can't go overseas and you definitely can't do it with 60 people. So was, was a brutal industry to be in.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (40:25.506)
Right? Yeah, there were certain sectors that just, I mean, there was nothing you could do. We opened up our first gym actually two weeks before COVID hit in 2020. we had our, us like two years to open and then our grand opening. And then we had a bunch of free clients in those first two weeks. And then they ended up being free clients for about a year because we couldn't charge them. Cause we couldn't get them back in the gym. We're doing online workouts and all that kind of stuff is insane.
 
Eli Facenda (40:36.817)
Ugh.
 
Eli Facenda (40:47.696)
Wow.
 
Eli Facenda (40:53.337)
And that's like where the true entrepreneurial muscles are definitely strengthened in times like that though. mean, like the people that bounce back and figure it out, like you just have a new sense of confidence of like, you know, I can handle anything.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (40:54.22)
But hey, we adapt,
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (41:06.764)
Yeah, man. I mean, you pivot, right? Like I actually ended up launching my first podcast during during COVID because I was stuck inside and it was like, all right, let's let's do this. Let's get on Zoom and interview people and all that kind of stuff, man. So that leads us right to the next question. And how do you make your last million? How do you make that transition?
 
Eli Facenda (41:12.859)
Cool.
 
Nice. Cool. I'll it.
 
Eli Facenda (41:24.143)
Yeah, so the last million that I made was in the current business that I have. so essentially what we've been doing there for about four years now is helping entrepreneurs maximize their travel on credit card points. So helping them get their dream bucket list trips, these 30, 40, $50,000 trips all over the world for about 90 % off by leveraging credit card points. And we've traditionally had some pretty high ticket services. I mean, not crazy expensive, but like, you five, 10, 15 K and that range has been the main main service. And so,
 
We cracked our first million about two years in, so that was 2020, 2024 actually was the first year we made a million there.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (42:00.526)
Awesome man, awesome. How about your next million? Where are you scaling to?
 
Eli Facenda (42:04.305)
Yeah, so the next million I wanna make is the same business. love what I do, I really enjoy it. And what I wanna do is do it in a more community oriented and lower ticket way. So I wanna have bigger reach, more digital products, more of the community, more affiliate services and stuff like that. And I'm really excited about kind of cracking the code on that, because we've done it decently with the higher ticket stuff, more agency level, service level stuff, which is great. And we're still cranking on that, we're gonna keep growing it. But I really wanna see what we can do with...
 
So the lower ticket stuff, creating awesome stuff on YouTube that leads to different channels and distributions there. So that's the next million and same business, just different type of money.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (42:41.57)
I love it man, yeah, that's kind of opposite of how some people approach it, right? You usually start with a lower ticket and then you have to build up that base before anybody will give you, you know, higher, pay for that higher ticket product, but you're kind of working backwards because you want to help more people.
 
Eli Facenda (42:56.677)
Totally, exactly, yeah, and there's a limit. mean, what we do in the high ticket is incredible, but it really is a specialized skill. Like you think about like a bookkeeper or an accounting firm or something, like there's like a million bookkeepers. There's like 50 people that know points and travel to the level that I need them to know it to really serve clients with the highest level. So there's a real limit on the ability to scale that. And so it's also just like, we wanna be able to do really quality work for less people, but then serve more people with the other stuff too.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (43:25.368)
Totally, totally.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (43:29.518)
Cool, let's jump into the next one dude and we'll wrap up. Eli, you're clearly in the top 1 % of what you do. I don't even know if there's that many people out there that do what you do at all, period. So clearly in the top 0.0001%, what is it about you that separates you from the rest of the field?
 
Eli Facenda (43:49.701)
I think it's our ability to actually live what we preach. This is something where, you know, there are other fantastic people that talk about credit card points, but very few of them are actually business owners, like that's who we serve, and very few of them are actually traveling in the way that they're trying to help people travel. So we've done both. I've built multiple businesses, so I understand the psychology and the relatability of how you wanna think about travel and points and the various stresses in your life, the limitations on time and complexity. And I also,
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (44:06.062)
Hmm.
 
Eli Facenda (44:20.636)
What just happened?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (44:22.998)
I'm not sure. We can splice it together, but let's see. Lost the video.
 
Eli Facenda (44:26.748)
Let me see here. Did my camera die or something?
 
Bizarre. second.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (44:36.076)
Yeah, weird. Never had that happen.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (44:42.038)
Not a big deal, we can splice it together, but let's see if we can get your camera working again.
 
Eli Facenda (44:46.992)
Don't see my camera get help. Is the audio coming through okay? Did it switch over there to my MacBook from the other one? Or it sounds the same.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (44:51.564)
Yeah, I can hear the audio.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (44:57.806)
I don't know. All I see is like a car. It's like I don't know. It's a card with a symbol on it I wonder what that is that riverside or is that your symbol? I can't be your symbol
 
Eli Facenda (45:06.556)
weird. Get help.
 
Eli Facenda (45:12.006)
Let me see.
 
trying to check this out.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (45:19.458)
We can also just finish it with audio.
 
Eli Facenda (45:23.556)
Is it, Dude, I don't know what's going on. Sorry about that. I've never seen...
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (45:28.654)
no worries, dude. We can just finish it with audio anyways.
 
Eli Facenda (45:31.63)
New recording track created the participants have been recorded.
 
Issue device struggling to record. High load on your device. Try closing all other apps. Give me one second. I don't have any apps open. That's really weird.
 
Eli Facenda (45:53.126)
Yeah, I don't know man. I apologize. I Okay, well yeah
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (45:57.219)
you're good, We'll just finish an audio and then I'll pull up for the video. I'll just black screen to a logo or something. So all good. I don't exactly know where you're at. If you want to start that sentence over.
 
Eli Facenda (46:04.048)
Okay, cool.
 
Eli Facenda (46:07.866)
Yeah, I'll just, I'll say, I'll just start. So yeah, so not only have we really walked the walk with actually living what we preach, but we also understand that psychology of what it's like to be a business owner, your limitations on time and complexity and all that stuff. And because we're talking about travel, people also want to know like what's actually in store for me in this destination. I've been to 50 countries now and my business partner has been to almost 100.
 
We have other team members who are all over 30, 40, 50 countries. So we've been to a lot of the destinations around the world that we're advising people to go to. So we know the ins and outs, best places to stay, hidden gems, top restaurants, stuff like that, that really add another layer of personalization and true experience into the service. So I think those are the things that really make us most credible in this space.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (46:57.506)
Dude, it's so important, right? Like there's so many, you know, there's so much content out there now. There's gurus and coaches and mentors, whatever you want to call them. Like the ones that are truly valuable and that people should pay attention to are the ones that are actually practicing what they preach, right? The ones that aren't just selling you education or aren't just selling you a product. Like they're actually, they've done what they're selling and they continue to
 
enjoy or do what they're selling.
 
Eli Facenda (47:28.635)
100%, yeah, if you're a living embodiment of what you do, it makes it that much easier to communicate it and sell it because you just are the thing you're selling.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (47:38.764)
Yeah, absolutely. What's one thing someone listening could do today to get 1 % closer to their dream life?
 
Eli Facenda (47:45.089)
One thing that would be the easiest is to spend 30 minutes, go on Instagram, go on your favorite social media site, go on some travel blog site, look for your dream destination, then pull up your calendar and put a time on the calendar where you're committing to go. One of my favorite quotes is from Tim Ferriss, I forget the exact quote, but basically the idea is that if you don't schedule your fun first, it won't happen.
 
because your business and your life will take up as much space as you allow it to. So most people find that I'll take the trip when it's convenient. I'll take the trip when I have more time. That time is never coming until you make it a priority. So the one thing they can do to get closer to their dream life is to just make a more bold commitment to putting the time on the calendar and be like, I am going and make some sort of investment, whether you're telling someone, whether you're putting some money down, whether you're learn the point stuff, that's gonna be the biggest leverage you can make.
 
to make sure that you actually follow through on taking these trips and then you'll find how to get there on points if you need to from there.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (48:50.766)
100 % man, gotta put it, people, entrepreneurs, people like us, we work in all the time, you've gotta put it, put it in your schedule. You've gotta block it out, commit to it.
 
Eli Facenda (48:59.821)
Absolutely, 100%.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (49:04.554)
Alright dude, I think we got it wrapped up, man.
 
Eli Facenda (49:05.743)
Beautiful. Awesome, Dan. Well, this was super fun and I apologize again for the audio or the video cutting off. don't know, no idea what happened with that, but yeah. Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (49:14.66)
All good, man. Not a big deal at all. Cool, man.
 
Eli Facenda (49:17.211)
So tell me a little more about your business. I'd love to just get a quick 30,000 foot view of what you're doing.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (49:21.836)
Yeah, dude. Yeah, man. So I have I have seven businesses. I have seven businesses right now. I'm selling one. So hopefully I'll have six soon. I have the law firm, which I'm scaling right now. I bought on a law firm partner scaling that really focused on that right now. And then I've got the two gyms, which I consider one business. And then I've got I'm involved in three startups.
 
where I'm chief legal officer or a co-founder of. One is TribeVest. We put together fund to funds in a box, fund administration, fund formation, people who raise capital for real estate projects or private equity too. And we just finished a $2 million seed round for that. So we're on schedule to raise for series A at the end of this year, which is massive. And then real estate software transaction management platform.
 
Eli Facenda (50:09.945)
Nice, congrats man.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (50:16.302)
It's all AI based, it's got an integrated large learning model called Clavis. So we've got that, we're raising for seed round right now for that. And we've got pilot programs out with Berkshire Hathaway and a couple other big brokerages. So that's our end client. And StackRack Battery, co-founder of that, which we've done. We're not raising any money because we've made, I think, $1.2 million in sales in the last 12 months. It's a battery manufacturing company where we sell
 
We sell battery systems similar to like Tesla Powerwalls is what they are. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
 
Eli Facenda (50:48.869)
Wow, wow, you're cool man. Damn, you got a lot going on. That's impressive. Do you have a few different assistants?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (50:57.046)
I I do. I've got paralegals and VAs and I've got partners in just about, I've got partners, full-time partners in all those businesses. yeah.
 
Eli Facenda (51:00.879)
Yeah, I imagine.
 
Eli Facenda (51:08.025)
I love it. I love it. Super cool, dude. Well, thanks again for having me on. It's super cool to hear what you're doing. And again, if I can support in any way with your travel stuff, just feel free to reach out. We do some discounts when we do like, you know, partners like this, or I would consider it like a partnership where we go on a pod or sharing to the audience. So if you ever need support, just feel free to reach out and I can certainly help you out there.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (51:28.258)
Yeah, man, let's chat about it. Let's see what we can what we can do. I mean, I travel a lot like we that that's part of what my wife and I do. Like that's how we bond. Like we we work like crazy when we're home. But then we travel a lot. So.
 
Eli Facenda (51:38.698)
Right. Oh, cool. Okay. Yeah. Let me know. mean, I'm to set up a call specifically about that, if you want, or however you feel like best to go about it. There's no, you know, no, no pressure on anything. It's just, uh, opportunities there. So just tell me how the best support.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (51:53.007)
Absolutely, All right, brother. Safe travels, man. All right. See you.
 
Eli Facenda (51:53.574)
Cool. I'll talk to you. Bye.
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
Seth Bradley’s Links:
https://x.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
www.facebook.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.threads.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.instagram.com/sethbradleyesq/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbradleyesq/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en=
Eli Facenda Links:
https://www.instagram.com/elitravelguy/
https://x.com/elitravelguy
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eli-facenda/
https://www.facebook.com/eli.facenda
https://www.youtube.com/@elifacenda
https://www.threads.com/@elitravelguy
https://www.skool.com/@eli-facenda-5305?t=posts

RTBL 06 | How to Survive When Real Estate Deals Fail with Ruben Kanya

In this episode, Seth Bradley, a securities attorney and real estate investor, and Ruben Kanya discuss the complexities of capital raising, the importance of experimentation in finding one’s niche, and the critical role of networking and trust in the investment landscape. Seth Bradley shares insights from his journey in real estate and tech, emphasizing the need for grit, perseverance, and public speaking skills to succeed in raising capital. He highlights the challenges of the first capital raise and the key lessons learned along the way, while Ruben Kanya adds perspective from his own experiences in the industry.
The discussion also explores the multifaceted benefits of hosting a podcast, with Seth Bradley and Ruben Kanya emphasizing the importance of listening, building connections, and establishing authority in your niche. They delve into the intricacies of real estate capital raising, including leveraging other people’s money, compliance with securities laws, and structuring compensation in syndications. The conversation also covers emerging trends such as fund-to-fund structures, and introduces Tribevest as a tool to simplify fund management and ensure compliance in capital raising efforts.
Links to listen and subscribe:
https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/raising-capital-the-right-way-compliance-funds-and/id1341895972?i=1000688593916
Links to watch and subscribe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyF9Z72m2R0
Bullet Point Highlights:
You need a license to raise capital legally.
Experimenting with different models helps identify what works for you.
Building authority and trust is essential in capital raising.
Networking with high net worth individuals is crucial.
The first capital raise is often the hardest.
Grit and determination are key to success in entrepreneurship.
Public speaking skills can enhance your ability to communicate effectively.
Learning from clients can provide valuable insights for your own journey.
You can leverage your existing skills to add value in capital raises.
Building a strong network can facilitate easier capital raising. Having a podcast enhances listening skills and fosters connections.
Capital raising requires grit, a strong network, and resources.
Leveraging other people's money accelerates business growth.
Compliance with securities laws is crucial in capital raising.
Compensation structures in syndication vary based on deal size and type.
Fund to fund structures are becoming more prevalent in real estate.
Effective communication is key to successful networking.
Tribevest simplifies the process of raising capital compliantly.
Understanding the legalities of capital raising is essential for success.
Building a community can expedite personal and professional growth.
Transcript:
Ruben Kanya (00:00.142)
whole idea here is you're actually not allowed to raise capital without a license. So just like being a doctor or a dentist or an attorney, you have to have a license to be able to raise capital and it's called a broker dealer or potentially an RIA, registered investment advisor. So if you're not one of those people, if you don't have a license, you need to have an exemption from having that license. if it's your, this is speaking in generalities, but if it's your own deal, if it's your own fund,
 
If it's your own syndication, if you're the one buying the property, that's an exemption. You're exempted. You can raise capital for your own deal and that's okay. And that's kind of the co-GP concept that we talk about sometimes. I actually don't like to say co-GP because to me it's a fallacy. There's no such thing as a co-GP. You're either a GP and an active partner.
 
Who's this? you're an entrepreneur? you're a real estate investor? you're trying to learn from those who did it? Well, come into the lab then. Put your white coat on, gloves on, notepad, and let's go, Joe.
 
Experiment nation this episode was a really fun one with Seth Bradley who is a fun manager Invest in entrepreneurs. He's an attorney he as a startup founders of software as a service and Really what I loved about What he's built is
 
Everything that he's built, it's vertically integrated, which I love, but he really embodies the principles of experimenting. Right. And what I mean by that is he has tried multiple models in real estate, which allowed him to get exposure, which I think is really important when I talk about having a well-rounded experiment in your lab, LabAK being your life, so that you can at least identify
 
(Seth Bradley) (02:10.529)
what you like, what you don't like, what gives you return on energy, what drains you. I think those are all important things for us to then be able to niche down. A lot of times we talk about niching down, but we haven't even gotten a taste of what's on the menu to even understand what it is that we want to niche down in. And so part of what I created here at Experimentation in the lab is to bring you
 
folks who can present the menu of the different options that there is in not only real estate, but in business and even career to then give you that exposure so that you can then get a taste even from this show and then implement it yourself and maybe try one or two or three experiments or four or five. How many it takes for you to feel like this is the thing. This is the thing that I'm going to hold on to and grasp to and go all in on. Right. And that's what we did.
 
And keep in mind that life has seasons. A lot of us can do something and it could be four seasons. Your season could be five years, 10 years, 15, but I do believe in the compound effect. his journey, Seth's journey, he was able to get his first duplex, then quads, then small multifamilies and big multifamily units. And the next thing you know, he's doing $120 million a deal just in 2022 alone, right? In one year.
 
But with that, one thing I wanted to highlight, so one thing is the experiment, different exposures, AKA building blocks towards the very thing that he's doing now. But the other thing is being able to get a free, or I should say, get a paid internship. And that's through servicing your clients, learning from them, and then taking a page from their book. He was an attorney that was putting down together his SEC deals of syndications,
 
capital raising, and then he learned from his clients because he had full transparency. Sometimes, often we're in a position where the proof of concept is right in front of us, but we don't grab it by the horns. We just see it for what it is, just clocking and clocking out. No matter what job you have, there's an opportunity for you to actually take lessons, systems, SOPs, structure, any skillset to take it to the next level for your own endeavors.
 
(Seth Bradley) (04:38.252)
And what I mean by that is I was a realtor and I was a realtor for the investor. understood how investors, underwrote their deals. And that was my win for me to hone my craft in real estate, underwriting deals, pulling comps, walking properties, understanding value at all. That was when I was the realtor for the investor. You can still look it up on bigger pockets. You can still see my page. That's what I was doing. I was helping investors invest until I then became an investor myself.
 
And in this case, he was an ICC attorney providing these, you know, going through the process of doing syndications, fund to fund, et cetera. And then he learned and he said, not only do I have a practice that does it, but I can also be on the other side of that transaction. So don't you ever forget the importance of being on the other side of the transaction in whatever service that you offer, even if it's just call it.
 
You work in hospitality at a restaurant to make ends meet. There's a system, there's a SOP, there's a checklist. There's something in there that is a proof of concept that you can then take and implement somewhere in your business. And the universe will tell you its secrets if you listen. The clues are all around us. Last but not least, I love our conversation around being an authority, building a brand.
 
Essentially, that's what capital raising is and he talked about three pillars. I don't want to talk about he said money Right is one heart of the center trust in your network, right? Your network is you gotta have a big network He talks about having a platform like this where I think everybody should have a podcast because you get the interview you get to learn the skills of communication listening, etc but most importantly you foster relationship while on the air and then
 
It builds trust to whoever's listening. I'm sure that if you're listening right now and you and I wanted to go into a deal together, there's some form of trust. If this is not your, your first episode. So there's that, right? We talked about having a meetup, restarting our meetups. That's key. Connecting people, they trust in you. Being an authoritative figure, trust. They can't flow you if they don't know you. So stop being cute and stop hiding and put yourself out there. Right? Money. Money follows all of the above network and trust.
 
(Seth Bradley) (07:00.408)
people who have money in your network will make it easier than those who are in your network who are broke. So surround yourself with people who have money, not just because they have money, but of course it can help you tremendously if you're trying to raise capital. And there's something that goes about saying with people who have money, it's not that they're better or anything, but there is a level of opulence and abundance.
 
And I think there should be a good balance. But certainly if you're trying to raise money with people who don't have money and you're in a circle, people don't know how many doesn't mean to say that you can't uplift them when you have an opportunity, but it's going to be hard to raise capital from people who don't have capital. Right. So that's one thing to keep in mind. Money trust network and being an authority. You can build an authority from home in the lab, in a studio, in person.
 
And you don't always have to be an expert in something else. Sometimes you can actually have authority within your own circle. If you're a dentist and you're trying to raise capital with other dentists, they trust you. You have authority maybe in your current marketplace, you're a manager of some kind or you're a lead or you're just someone that people really trust. You have that authority. You have trust already with like-minded people in your circle. So this was a great one. He brought a lot of core values home. And that's what I love about
 
the show. It's every time you listen or anytime you interview someone who's had done some amazing leaps and experiments in their own lab, there's always some consistent clues that kind of bring to the surface and maybe it just, I'm aware of them, but if not, my goal is to extract that and make them aware for you. So I trust that you're going to get a lot from this episode without further ado, Seth Bradley in the lab, y'all.
 
Experimentation, what's going on? Your host Ruben here. Today I have the pleasure of connecting with a gentleman that we connected with, had some mutual connections. And I was like, I didn't want to let the serendipity go to waste because I saw there was a mutual beneficial component to the lab, as I always say. And I always think you're as good as your tools, you're as good as your resources. And so I'm really happy to have the gentleman here step into the lab with us to give us insight. And I also love the
 
(Seth Bradley) (09:21.39)
I'll call it a vertical integration I think and maybe Seth will keep me honest here, but without further ado I want to welcome Seth Bradley. How's it my man? Welcome to the lab brother
 
Going great, man. Ruben, really appreciate you having me on. Thanks for having me in the lab.
 
Absolutely, man. I should so listen if I'm curious so Seth because you know, we we start to talk a little bit and I was a car We're getting to the weeds of things. I want to make sure I hit this record button, but I'm just a curious guy and I'm so curious that if I'm at a real estate conference and you and I sit next to each other and I say hey I'm Ruben Seth. Nice to meet you. You know, what do you do for a living? What do you lead with because you have a very interesting background? So I want to we're gonna reverse engineer, but I'm so curious as to
 
at the time that we're recording this, what do you lead with if you don't know what my interests are, you don't know where I'm coming from, I could be an investor, I could be interested in putting my money to work, what do you lead with? I'm just so curious.
 
I love that question, man, because sometimes I have a hard time answering it. It's an easy question to answer for most people, but for me, I have to think about it for a second. But typically I'll lead with I'm a securities attorney, specifically a real estate securities attorney. So if you're raising capital for real estate from passive investors, I'm your guy. can help you put together your fund or your syndication compliantly and secondarily, or, you know, one B I'll call it a tech founder. So involved in a few tech startups as well.
 
(Seth Bradley) (10:48.238)
That's awesome. Then that opens up the window because I see her tech founder and then I securities attorney. Is that that accurate?
 
Yep, nailed it.
 
securities attorney. would you do you happen to do you still do I mean, of course, you've been involved in raising capital yourself, which is what I want to lead with next. But are you actively investing? And if you are, what is the model? Is it more investing in the startup? Or is it more investing in actual capitals? I should say social capital relationships, or even you know what, maybe it's some form of real estate, what is your current I guess, investing
 
season for lack of better words.
 
Yeah, it's all across the board, man. mean, everything that you mentioned, I mean, just quickly, I started in real estate in 2013. House hacked into a duplex did kind of the bigger pockets podcast. Listen to that. Red Rich Dad, Poor Dad, you know, the typical journey you take and house hacked into a duplex and started buying bigger and bigger properties got to the point where, you know, I wanted to get into syndications and funds and start raising capital. So I started actually investing passively into real estate first and I got my feet wet.
 
Ruben Kanya (12:01.55)
figured out what that investor journey looked like. And then I started raising capital myself from my own syndications where potentially I could be just a capital partner or also an operator. So I raised a good amount of capital from 2019 to 2023, I would say, before the interest rates started to spike. And then we slowed down a bit, but we still own a good amount of that real estate and just put it in perspective. We bought about $120 million with the real estate in 2022 alone. And now I'm kind of
 
involved with a handful of tech startups where I'm also in that same capacity where I'm raising capital or helping the CEO raise capital for seed rounds for these startups.
 
Okay, very interesting. So I'm glad let's go to the very beginning because you talked about bigger pockets with shout out to bigger pockets, right? Because that's or did you say bigger pockets? I did hear you say that. Okay, cool. had a mutual kind of, know, I was planning my seeds. I think that they did an amazing job, of course, like minded investors together. 2013 get a duplex. I'm sure one thing I'm curious about and you know, someone else might be listening is, you know, what
 
point now every everyone's situation is different with that said, but at what point did you start to think, okay, it's time to bring in some outside capital and, I'm going to lead with you. It seems that you strike me as a guy who does things strategically. enlighten me a little bit as to get the duplex. Was there another lever that was pulled to get the next property before you start to raise capital? Or is that right away, right into, okay, now it's time to raise capital. Cause
 
duplex going to take me so far. Tell me about that journey.
 
Ruben Kanya (13:43.732)
No, I mean, that journey was, you know, a lot of different types of things. mean, I've wholesaled, I've fixed and flipped single family properties. We were doing that in Cleveland for a while. Then we kind of moved on to multifamily, you know, smaller multifamilies up to four units, which is still residential, but then up to, you know, like 16 units, those sorts of things. Then we started getting to where, you know, capital starts getting constrained, your own capital, or if you're doing like a JV, starts getting constrained. But I was fortunate enough that my legal practice, which also started in 2013,
 
was highly related to what I was doing. So as a real estate attorney, my real estate clients were raising capital for their real estate deals. So then I got into securities law. So I saw how they were raising capital. Then I started helping them raise capital from the legal side. And then I started raising, and then I realized that, hey, if we want to go bigger, I've got to be more like my clients who are buying, you know, 50, $100 million properties. How do we do that? Well, like they do it. They need to raise capital from either
 
passive investors or from, larger investors like family offices and places like that. So I knew that that was the pathway. So I was fortunate enough to kind of have that perspective shown to me by my clients and they kind of showed me the blueprint. Hey, this is how you need to do it. Now, a lot of other attorneys see that same blueprint and they don't really have that entrepreneurial mindset. So they're kind of just like that service oriented, Hey, let's do what I'm doing. And I'm just going to help. But I have an entrepreneurial mindset. I I'm like,
 
I want to do that. I want to buy that property. I want to run that business. I want to scale it. like anything else, though, I still had a little bit of reservation, I would say. So I decided to invest passively first just to get my feet wet, just to see what that investor experience was like. And then once I did that a few times, I really got into the active side and dove right in.
 
Oh man, I love so many elements of that. Let's unpack the experiment phase, right? Because that's what I truly believe in. I'm curious to what your thoughts are on this, right? Before I even preface by saying this, I think, and this is just a thought, could be wrong. I'm experimenting life as it is. But when you ask someone, hey, what do you want to do for a living? Right? It's like, well, I don't know. I haven't been exposed to enough.
 
(Seth Bradley) (16:03.116)
Right. But then when you start experimenting with a lot of different things, then you can niche down because you've been exposed to like this that I don't like, et cetera. And there's a second leg to that, but I want to touch on that for a second because you said you did wholesale fixing flips, then you need small multifamily. What do you think you were able to gain from that? My personally, when I see that, I see, well, you were able you were able to get insight, but
 
Again, maybe you see things differently. Maybe it's like you needed to do those things and you thought it was true. And then you were led down one path and led to another. What do you take from that? Were you experimenting or was it more or less of the natural progression of events and what you thought was going to be your end all be all ended up progressing into a new ideal. Tell me about that experience.
 
Yeah, I mean, I think it was an experiment. It was me trying. I knew I wanted to be in real estate. I love real estate. I've always been drawn to it. It's just been an interesting thing for me and interesting subject. I remember when I was in undergrad and I couldn't afford to buy any kind of real estate or didn't have a job at all. And I was trying to figure out, well, man, how can I buy like these townhouses that I'm living in and rent those out? Like, I remember just being interested from the get go. So I knew I wanted to be in it, but it was certainly an experiment to see.
 
how to break into the market, how to scale a business. Because once you got into a duplex and your house hacked and bought a few other single family properties, it was like, okay, well, we can continue to do this, but I'm always looking again to scale. And to do that, a lot of times you do need to bring in other people's money to be able to fund that scale. But not always. mean, I think it would be a better pathway, honestly, if you can scale without other people's money, because then you can own 100 % of it. But a lot more difficult to do. So if you want to...
 
you want to grow with scale fast, typically it's with other people's money. And again, luckily I was already in a profession that gave me that experience to be able to see that pathway and be able to execute on
 
(Seth Bradley) (18:02.35)
Now tell me that's a great insight or at least a transition point there, Seth, because we, know, in our professions, we spend a lot of time, but not a lot of folks spend the time to have the lens of an entrepreneur to say, hey, maybe I can actually take a page from their book. Right. Because I think it's interesting that it's we all are entrepreneurs. Right. So we go into business ourselves to run away from maybe possibly corporate. Some people.
 
And then we build our own companies. We install systems, we invest in resources. And then it's like, we turn into the thing that we were maybe running away from, but there's a lesson that we get to build it our way and have maybe learned lessons from these big corporations. In your end, it reminds me a little bit of me because I again, certainly not an attorney by any means. And I won't compare being a realtor to an attorney, but you are servicing clients and you get to at least,
 
at least get nuggets from their journey and then say, Hey, why don't, why don't I take a page from their book? Can you talk to us about that? Because I think honestly, it's an unkept almost secret and not even talked about enough where it's like, Hey, you're taking this opportunity right now to get to understand the playbook, see how they've done it, learn from their mistakes, right? Right. Through service and while getting paid. And then you're like, okay, now I'm going to do it for me. So
 
Do you see it that way as well? was it kind of, know, or did you strategically go into it thinking that you do that? Or it was kind of like, you know what? This is kind of cool. Let me try it myself.
 
Yeah, I mean, and Ruben, hats off to you, man, because a lot of realtors and brokers, they're around real estate every single day. That is literally their business. They have access to deals before other people. They get to see things that other people don't get to see. They get to see the transactions. They get to see how they change hands. And as you know, most of them don't invest in real estate. like, you even own your own house? Do you own any investment properties in...
 
Ruben Kanya (20:11.918)
90 % of them don't, right? Unless it's, well, maybe their own house, but that's probably it. They don't invest. And it's crazy to think about that when they're around that all the time. And it's the same thing with attorneys, right? Like, know, they're, whether there's somebody like me, there's real estate or securities, and they have clients that are, that are buying large properties and raising capital, or it's, you know, some other practice like and A where they're combining companies and building companies and things like that.
 
I think that there's a certain entrepreneurial DNA that's in some of us and it's not in others. And that's okay. Like some people thrive in an office atmosphere or thrive in a W-2 type of atmosphere. And a lot of times I don't even like to disrupt that. Like people, you know, are comfortable there. They like the steady paycheck and that's okay. And I think the vast majority of people do want that and they do like that. They like the predictability of it. But some of us out there, like me and you, I believe are, you know, we just,
 
We're not a fit for that. Like we need to build. I think that's the key is, is the build, right? Cause you were talking about, you know, we start putting all the systems and the processes and the things into place to ultimately end up in the, the same machine that we didn't want to work for. But I don't think that's the piece that's important. The piece is important is that that climb the build, we want to build like we were builders. love to build.
 
Yeah. Have you ever had a conversation, with maybe your associates on? I don't know if this is a hypocritical question, because I don't know if I could answer this. But I'm curious, have you had a conversation with another attorney? Like, hey, you see this all the time. Have ever thought of doing it yourself? What's the mindset behind? Have you had that conversation? And have you had around those? Yeah, just curious.
 
Yeah, I definitely, I definitely have. think, you know, at least specifically with the attorney industry or with that profession, we are, we're trained to look at risk. We're trained to evaluate liability. We are trained to be conservative in nature. and that is totally different than when you're an entrepreneur and you're out there building a business and you're, don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. And there's going to be a problem that pops up today that you didn't expect.
 
Ruben Kanya (22:30.01)
And you don't know if you're going to be able to pay payroll and all these different things that come up as an entrepreneur, as a business builder, that's totally a different mindset than it is that attorneys are trained for. So I think that's definitely a separation. like, you know, I have a lot of investors that are attorneys. That was, that's who my investor base is. Typically it's other attorneys. A lot of other capital raisers don't go after attorneys because they are paying the ass. We ask a lot of questions. Like I said, we are risk averse. Like, you know, we're not the ideal.
 
person or people to raise from.
 
I'm gonna predict my money isn't really the case.
 
with a cold on the page. 137 second paragraph line four. What does that mean? Why is that? And, know, that's the kind of stuff you have to deal with. But, you know, they do make a good amount of money. So there's a, you know, there's a push, there's a give take there. But, you know, I think that that's, I have identified that with conversations with my investors and obviously my prior colleagues. I mean, that in itself is, is a big difference.
 
It's a big difference. We're just as attorneys, we're just trained to find and look at risk and think about all the bad things that can happen. And man, when you're building a business, when you're growing out on your own and you say, I'm done with my W-2, I don't want that paycheck anymore. That's a lot of risk, right? Or at least it's a lot of risk to a person that thinks that way. I actually don't think that way. I think it's more risky to be have one income stream and be a W-2, but that's certainly not the way that they typically look at it.
 
(Seth Bradley) (24:02.306)
Yeah, no, it's interesting what you're saying. But I'm also curious though, that if they are also investing, because it sounds like you've also worked with some associates, or at least your investors have come from the same cloth, it sounds like they might be, instead of again, raising the capital like you are, high risk, high leverage, they're willing to put their money to work. Do you find that
 
And I guess maybe that's it. Do you find that that kind of archetype is finding that to be of a less riskier approach versus flipping versus doing it themselves? Or do you find that it's more of time constraint thing? it's like, listen, I got the money. You mentioned it. I have a high net worth. I'm an accredited investor. Let me just do it with someone who's an expert. What have you seen since you've been on both sides, and especially as a fundraiser?
 
Yeah, I think it's that investor profile. You know, these are folks that make a lot of money from their W-2. They have no time on their hands because their W-2 is so demanding. then any time they have outside of that, it's got to be spent with family. So they really just don't have any time, but they do have capital. So it's just that investor profile that you're dealing with with attorneys and some of the similar, you know, with doctors and dentists and engineers and people like that. Same thing. You know, they're highly paid professionals.
 
You know, they went to school for a long time. They make a lot of money, but they don't have any time. And unless they really want to venture out and say, okay, I want to raise capital or, or, I don't know, you have to figure out a way to carve out more time because they certainly don't have it. I know when I worked in big law firms and I'm trying to bill 2000 hours a year, I don't have time to, you know, invest actively. In fact, I actually got fired from my big law job, my last one, because of that, because I'm raising capital and doing real estate deals.
 
and starting businesses and guess what? You don't have time to do that if you're working at a demanding job, whether that's as an attorney or Dr. Dennis, whoever that might be. So I think it just comes down to that profile and do you have time? Do you have capital? And then whatever one you have a surplus of, that's probably where you're going to fit into the asset. So you can invest if you have capital and no time.
 
Ruben Kanya (26:26.126)
You need to find something a little bit more passive and that comes through like funds and syndications and things like that.
 
All right. So that's very helpful and I think very interesting because you've seen both sides. You not only were on the other side, but you've also been the capital raiser and then you've also yourself invested passively. Tell me about the first deal that if you recall, at least the like kind deal when you raised capital, who did you go to?
 
Did you start with your client base? Did you start with friends and family? And then maybe we can even get into the granularity. I know there's different non-accredited, accredited 506V versus 506C. There's a lot of different kind of foundational pillars. But talk to us about what your first deal was like, if you recall some of the numbers and what kind of asset type and then who you actually pulled in. So people can start thinking of actually what's possible when we talk about capital.
 
you know, in fundraising, we think of it as this big thing, but people like you and me can actually start initiating these kinds of transactions. Talk to us about your first one.
 
Yeah, man, I mean, don't remember the actual specifics, but it was like 100 because there's around 150 unit multifamily something like that was your first That was the first raise it was the first raise but I was brought I I wasn't the primary operating partner I brought in as a capital raiser that sort of thing and also providing some legal services as well. Um, but I was
 
(Seth Bradley) (27:48.078)
That was your first race.
 
(Seth Bradley) (28:01.422)
Hold on. That's interesting. Now you kind of you're kind of double. Is that is that how you got your general partner essentially? Were you a general partner on that? Or were you tell us about that? Because from what I understand, you can correct me if I'm wrong here. You're the expert. You can bring in different subject matter expertise to the table to value your I guess your position and a capital raise. Maybe one is investor relations, one, et cetera. Did you from what I understand, bacon?
 
some of your services and as a GP or is that, what did you?
 
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I was a general partner on that deal, baking in some of my legal services as well. Started leveraging my skillset that's super valuable. Obviously, it's applicable to these capital raises. I can help you raise capital and also be the securities attorney and also potentially the real estate attorney as well on the deal. So lots of different ways that I can get in there and provide value to the active partnership.
 
But yeah, I I was tasked with raising, you know, half a million dollars. I didn't hit it. I hit way under. I think I might've raised like a couple hundred thousand dollars. And I was pretty happy that I even hit that because it's the first time. I'm, and I'll tell you what, man, like capital raising is hard. Like I think that, you know, you see all these masterminds out there and these coaching programs and things and they're teaching how to raise capital and some are great. And I'm actually in a couple of them. but they are, you know, they, have to sell you on that. easy, right? They have to sell you on, Hey,
 
I'll give you the systems, the processes and boom, you're going to be able to raise a million dollars easily. It's not that easy. unless you already have a built in network of high net worth individuals, that's where you'll find success. Or maybe you have a platform like yours where you can access a lot of people that you already have a relationship with and you'll like, and trust you that love what you're doing. And they're like, man, if he's investing in this, it must be good. So that those people, like you, and then also people that are.
 
Ruben Kanya (29:59.426)
we tend to see a lot of doctors and dentists that are very successful right out of the gate. Cause guess what? They work with other doctors and dentists who already trust them, who have money, who already trust them. So they do great. and then others, like me are probably somewhere in the middle, right? We we've got a base of investors that are like attorneys, which seem like they'd be great because they have money, but guess what? They're a pain in the ass. So there's, there's a little bit of give take there. and then you have other folks who,
 
you know, maybe they're a school teacher or something like that where their colleagues maybe don't have a ton of money to invest and they have to follow just like, you know, follow the processes, the systems and the marketing funnels and those things and rely really heavily on that. And typically it doesn't go that well. It doesn't on the first one. You've really got to be scrappy. Like you've got to get in there. You've got to literally make a list of a hundred people that you know, that might want to invest right.
 
type it up, go systematically through that list, and you've gotta break out of your shell and not be afraid to just reach out to these people, no shame, get your pitch together and just do it. And it feels awkward and you don't wanna do it and you feel like a salesperson, but you've gotta do it. You've gotta break through those reservations and make it happen because that first raise is a bear. You've gotta just be.
 
You've got to be scrappy and you've got to do whatever it takes and 10x whatever you think is going to take.
 
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(Seth Bradley) (31:59.278)
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and midterm rental insurance bootcamp to fast track your way into landing these lucrative insurance contracts the exact same ways multiple investors have taken advantage of this unknown and untapped niche within the midterm rental umbrella. Wow, so I'm a systems guy and as you're speaking, I'm taking notes here guys. I heard three key pillars and feel free to add to them because I wanna hear.
 
kind of the downfall of some of what folks are coaching. I heard one is money, number two is trust, and number three is network. And I like how you highlighted those because I hear, well, if you have a network and you can get access and you have a large pool, then there's probably people who are gonna have money in there. Then if you have what I'm hearing is authority, trust, AKA I'm a doctor, you're a doctor, we speak the same language. And by the way, guess what? Third pillar, we all have money.
 
So that's kind of like the sweet, sounds like that's the sweet spot. MTN money trust and network. What did I miss?
 
Ruben Kanya (34:03.89)
You nailed it, man. That's it. That's kind of the big level, the high level things that you need. I mean, you need that authority or you need to be able to show that you know what you're doing, that you know what you talk about and what you're talking about, that sort of thing. And then obviously that network, you either have to develop that through your W-2 that you already have or however it might be, or maybe you have a platform, right? Like maybe you have a platform like a podcast or an investor group.
 
or an in-person meetup. We don't do those as much as we used to before COVID, but that used to be a huge thing. Like I were on a real estate meetup in San Diego County or something like that. And it goes, that used to go really, really well for people to be able to raise capital. So yeah, you gotta have that platform. Network. I know, right, Networking lunch.
 
You should bring that back. There's something about because there's something about this, right? This is cool. Like, what a time to be alive where you and I can connect in the flesh. But I want to echo what you just said. Because I'm kind of speaking to myself as a reminder, Ruben, you got to get these meetups going again. We used to do a meetup in New York and Atlanta.
 
And just the relationships that happen in the room and you're being the super connector is so powerful. I wouldn't get cute and just, you know, this is great that you and I can connect while you're in San Diego and I'm here in Boston, but it's not, or it's and, I think we should, I think we should bring it back. Cause I could tell it may a super charismatic dude, great energy. you know, obviously you're authoritative figure and I feel like, I think, it will only service more.
 
never seen.
 
(Seth Bradley) (35:41.87)
to have these in there's something about in person. So yeah, I'm just I'm preaching to the choir, but I'm also like, hey, accountability, I'm gonna check up on you. gotta do the same.
 
You gotta appreciate it. Tell me sure man. And it's great. Like when we meet on something like this and we have some interactions on social media and then we get on each other's podcast, you know, get to know each other. And then when you meet in person, you're like, this is awesome. You already feel like you know the person. So technology is a great and right. Another and yeah.
 
Yeah, don't sleep on that fit that in person. We need more of that if anything. And people are, you know what, people I think are actually searching for it with all this technology. So good reminder for the both of us and whoever who's listening. I want to touch on something that you said, Seth. You mentioned, because I like learning from those who either have failed or made mistakes because can expedite our learning process. So you said,
 
First deal typically, uh first one doesn't go well, uh, it's a bear but then you also mentioned that uh, you know Some some mastermind programs, right and there's a lot out there good and bad and some are better than others. Uh, some of them, you know I see I guess uh, maybe Don't um, I should say, um, maybe they fall a little short
 
of helping you get to your first link. What's missing? What's the missing link? We talk about money, trust and network, but like if I wanted to nail it the first time the right way without, and I wanted to learn from someone like you from, your mistakes or from someone else's mistakes or from, know, those masterminds that are just falling short, what is a, is, is it a foundational or at least insight or lesson learn or thing I should keep top of mind in addition to the money, trust and network that would maybe put me in a
 
(Seth Bradley) (37:40.024)
position not to have the first one be so challenging.
 
Yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, I think it's going to be challenging no matter what. I mean, I think what I was going to say is actually grit, right? You have to have grit. So I think it kind of it's a counterbalance here where you have a mastermind or coaching program or a class or something like that that you're selling to somebody. And the only way somebody is going to buy it is if you say, hey, buy this or come join me in this group and
 
I'll make it easy for you to do what you want to do. Like that's the selling point. You have to say that it's going to be easy to get them to pay you to do it. But the problem is once they're in, you realize it's not easy. So, you know,
 
People sell the promise, not the process.
 
That's right. That's right. So, you know, I think maybe I don't know if there's any way around that. Like you certainly can't sell it is going to be hard and be like, Hey, well, if you buy my $20,000 program, you're probably not going to make it. So you can, if you want, you know, it's just not, it's not going to work. So I don't know if that's going to change, but I would say maybe once you get into that program, then you preach that, look, I can give you the systems, I can give you the processes. I can even teach you the compliance and I can hook you up with all my different, you know, my network and
 
Ruben Kanya (38:59.21)
hook you up with my securities attorney and my CPA and my funnel builder and those sorts of things. But at the end of the day, really emphasize that it's going to be work. You have to not only implement the systems, but you're going to have to scrap. Just like building any business, capital raising is a hard business and you're going to have to do things that are going to make you uncomfortable. And if you don't go all in, you're not going to make it. That's all there is. It's just like any business.
 
or even a piece of a business. So me and my wife own a few gyms together and like sometimes we'll implement like you know, a promotion or something. Right. And if we half asset, it doesn't work. It just doesn't. It simply does not work. You have to have full buy-in. You have to believe in it yourself and you have to get your teammates and your employees to believe in it or they won't or they won't grow in the same direction as you. You've got to be all in just like with any business or it's not going to work.
 
love that. That's a good one. The belief system is certainly a big one. And I'm sure it comes off across, especially in this space of capital raising, you people want to know that, do you believe in what you're saying, right? Just as much as you believe in yourself. That's interesting. So
 
Tactically, was talking to this gentleman yesterday at the gym, speaking of the gym, a young guy, a hustler, you know, making some good money. And we were kind of talking about, you know, journey, you know, part of the journey is, you know, acquiring skill sets and honing your and sharpening the axe, for lack of a better word. And so I'm curious, you know,
 
And I'm going to stick to my pillager because that's a reference point for me. But if I'm thinking of, what is one skill? Not saying for this is the end all be all by any means, just curses. If I was to focus and truly get really, really good at one skill and, can she not just achieve mastery in it? Is it fostering relationships, remembering Seth's birthday, what he does? Is it being able to really get
 
(Seth Bradley) (41:17.998)
great at communication and putting together a pitch deck, just to get a little bit more granular of like, what skillsets should I be thinking of, of honing, flexing that muscle and or which skill sets would actually give me an advantage in this space to really double down on? What would you say to that?
 
I'll just lean on what I personally did. And I think that that's public speaking. So it's a lot, it's something that people hate, right? Like most people hate it. There's a small percentage of people that love it. Not very many. Most people say it's their biggest fear. Certainly my biggest fear was public speaking. so I had to overcome that. I realized that in order to be the person that I wanted to be, I needed to overcome that fear. I needed to get good at what I was not good at. And that was certainly it. And I'll tell you what.
 
doing what we're doing now helped me. So I launched a podcast. It helps a lot. You get used to talking, you get used to conversating with people and you being the center of attention and focusing your thoughts and putting them into the words that you want to say. And it, it really helped. And I think that that goes from the top down. So even if you, you know, public speaking, you're thinking about, you know, being on stage and giving a presentation, that sort of thing.
 
Just gonna say.
 
Ruben Kanya (42:34.914)
but it trickles down all the way to networking conversations, to having a phone call with an investor. Like it just improves your conversation skills and your communication skills that you have, whether you're on stage, whether you're on a podcast or whether you're on a phone call or a face-to-face meeting with an investor, it trickles all the way down.
 
I love this conversation so much and Seth, you have your own podcast as well. Why don't you plug it in for a second.
 
Sure, it's called the Passive Income Attorney podcast, but I will say that I'm rebranding to Raise the Bar Radio. Obviously a homage to raising capital and being an attorney.
 
Right. No, the reason I bring that is I couldn't, I just want to echo that, that, everything is, is, is a, is a building block, right? I think what's fascinating about having your own show, right? Seth is, you know, that when someone is talking, traditionally, or if you're not well trained, you're already thinking the next thing to say, not really hearing the person. This skillset right here, but we're doing, which I love so much, you know, forces you to be a better listener.
 
You know be able to collect information Digest it analyze it and then respond to it. I've always said I think having a show a podcast is one of the ultimate hacks because of the the the There's just so many multiple benefits associated with it. I'm curious. Do you see it that way too? Or is it just me?
 
Ruben Kanya (44:06.798)
just 100 % man 100 % you heard me man like that it's a game changer I mean there's that's to me the number one thing but also you you just get to make connections too right like you get to have guests that you have to have a reason to have somebody on your show that maybe you wouldn't get to talk to for whatever reason or and you get to cross paths with people and you get to say you get to share this experience like we're always gonna have this experience I know when I meet up with people in real life
 
maybe five years later, like at a networking event, I'm like, my gosh, you remember we were I was on your podcast four years ago or whatever. And it's just like, you know, it's like we're high school buddies or something. you know,
 
You know, that's so funny you say that Seth, because I was at a conference and I've seen this dude and it had been so long. He's awesome. And I blanked on his name and I was like, but I like, hadn't seen me yet. So I just went to my episode, scrolled them like that's right. Cause I couldn't put it together. I'm like, why am I playing on it? And we hit it off. went to lunch together. Like it was just awesome. But it's to your point, it's, it's sharing an experience one.
 
It's learning how to communicate, learning how to listen, and then being able to... That's why I actually like being on this side more, because I get to ask you questions. It's having a master class. I'm learning so much right now, and then I get to share with my audience. It's like, Roman, that was just a great interview. like, dude, I self-interest. I selfishly was just as hyped. I'm so glad you got value out of it. So that's awesome, Seth. Let me ask you. So, know, biggest...
 
You talked about the capital raising, challenging, having grit, needing grit, having a network, having money, having relationships. On the other side of this is, ah, this isn't for me. Do you have a message for those folks who are saying, you know, if you're an advocating for it and obviously you have a service around it, you've done it yourself. Sure. It's not for everybody.
 
(Seth Bradley) (46:14.178)
Right, but for someone out there who's not thinking this right like I think I was in a meetup There was a gentleman out like 300 something units like single-family homes. I think I think you did it the old-fashioned way old gentleman I'm like, yeah, I'm like damn. what is it? What message you have to like share as far as I? Like pulling on levers, right? That's why a lot of us get into real estate levers being anyone resources capital social capital, etc Can you?
 
Just give us your take on this lever and the power it has. And if someone's not thinking of this, the power it can have. I you mentioned 120 million in 2022. Like help us understand and grasp that for someone who's thinking still like, oh, I'm going to just refinance. I'm going to flip this home and I'm going to OPM. How important is that?
 
It's so important. Like I said, it's scale, right? It's scale and speed. And that applies to any business that you're trying to scale. It's speed. Like, can you get there on your own or maybe finding one partner at a time? A lot of times that's where you start. Like if you're fixing and flipping homes, you get to a max and you're like, I'm going to bring in, you know, Joe Shimo or my brother-in-law and they're going to fund this one deal. And you're doing one house at a time, or maybe you're doing two houses and you're doing three, but that takes time.
 
I mean, it just takes a lot of time to get there. So you're just going to be going like this. Maybe you're going to keep improving and then you're going to have one bad deal and it'll be chopped back down a little bit and they're to keep going. But with other people's money, you go like this, like that you get vertical and you can get, and you can just get economies of scale. can, again, just go with speed and that's what matters in business. Now, maybe that's not for everyone. I do get that. Like, I think if you would have asked me a few years ago, I would have said, this is the only way.
 
Like this is the only way you have to do it. I don't know if it's necessarily for everyone, but if you do want to get to that next level and you want to get there fast, like you want to achieve it soon, then other people's money is where it's at. Like you have to use it like gasoline on a fire.
 
(Seth Bradley) (48:21.678)
Tell us about the, I recently heard Alex Formozzi say this, and I think he was talking about how people need to realize that a piece of a watermelon is always gonna be greater than a large grass, like grapes or something like that. I was like, oh, that's a very interesting analogy. Can you break down maybe just for us who are not familiar with the split?
 
when you're raising capital and you have other people's money in play and you know a lot of people talk about assets under management here and there millions here and there but help us understand like what's what's the what's the ratio you helped a lot of clients if someone's a GP on a hundred million dollar deal or a ten million dollar deal how much are they actually taking home right like how much do I make because you know you see a lot even on social like
 
I think that's very interesting for us because you know, we got into the space and we're super lean, but at the same time our margins are ridiculous and it's not about how many doors someone how much profit we make per each, you know, property with all these insurance companies who are paying us like five X what you would traditionally pay. So it's never been about a door contest for us, but that's very prevalent in the industry. Like, we got assets on a management, you know, 20 million here, 120 million. But how much would one.
 
for someone who's listening, or maybe you're not thinking, said pour gasoline on it, how much am I actually taking home, let's say on a $100 million raise, or on a 20 million, 10 million? What's the good ratio? Like what am I making? And then what's the upside of that? And why is it beneficial for me to really pay attention to this? Especially if I am for profit and money driven, and I understand the opportunity that might be at stake here.
 
For sure, man. And you're kind of opening up a can of worms, right? So we'll see where we take this. the general idea here is you're actually not allowed to raise capital without a license. So just like being a doctor or a dentist or an attorney, you have to have a license to be able to raise capital. And it's called a broker dealer or potentially an RIA, a registered investment advisor. So if you're not one of those people, if you don't have a license, you need to have an exemption from having
 
Ruben Kanya (50:41.814)
that license. Now, if it's your, this is speaking in generalities, but if it's your own deal, if it's your own fund, if it's your own syndication, if you're the one buying the property, that's an exemption. You're exempted. You can raise capital for your own deal and that's okay. And that's kind of the co-GP concept that we talk about sometimes. I actually don't like to say co-GP because to me it's a fallacy. There's no such thing as a co-GP. You're either a GP and an active partner.
 
or you're not. And what's a co GP. So we call co GPS or the way that the industry tends to frame them as kind of these small capital raisers, right, these small capital raisers that come in and raise a little bit of capital, and they don't participate in the deal in any other way. So they don't provide any services, they don't do any of
 
I got got I got rich friends Right you call me you say Ruben. Can you code GP this? know you can probably bring us an extra 50 million to the table Co GP or you're saying is actually not kosher
 
It depends. So it all depends on how you structure that deal. So if you're bringing a large amount of capital and you're only bringing capital, what you're going to want to do is negotiate managerial or voting rights within that legal entity that you're partnering with. So maybe they're the operating partner and you're the capital partner. And that's okay. So long as you as the capital partner have some sort of like meaningful voting and managerial rights. So that's kind of what private equity does, right? They come in, they raise capital.
 
And that's all they do is provide capital. But guess what? In those legal documents, if something goes wrong, let's say with the property or whatever the asset is, they have takeover rights. They can come in and manage the property and take over the asset management if they want to. Those rights are baked into the legal documentation. And that's what makes it okay, because they are an active partner because they have those managerial and or voting rights. But when you come in as a, let's say a smaller partner, and all you're doing is bringing in capital,
 
Ruben Kanya (52:41.1)
and you're not doing anything else. So you haven't negotiated any meaningful rights to make decisions or to manage. you don't actually manage the asset. You don't actually attend the meetings. You don't do anything except, here's my 500,000 bucks from my investors. And then you walk away. That's actually not legal. And a lot of people call that the Code GP model. But actually, you're either an active partner in the deal or you're not.
 
Would it change Seth if I, it sounds like what you're saying is I'm bringing 500K and then I'm just leaving. I'm just like, here you go. Here's, I'm just hooking you up. Would that change if I put my own money into the deal? Now I'm an LP or no, there's more complicated.
 
Now you're, yeah, now you're an LP because it's your money. So you're just an investor.
 
Right. you're saying I could, yeah. So you're saying the difference between the example you just gave is the fact that that person never had money in, they just brought money in. That's none of their own money. And then they didn't do anything. You're saying that's a red flag for lack of better words, if they don't have the proper, I guess, voting rights, manager rights, et cetera. Is that an accurate recap?
 
Yeah, I can use my own capital. I can put my own half a million dollars into somebody's deal and be a passive investor. And that's okay. I'm not raising capital. That's my capital. But if I said, okay, here's $250,000 from my mom and $50,000 from Rubin and another $100,000 from this person and that person. And I put it in a LLC or I just bring them into the deal. Then that is raising capital. You're raising capital from other people. And that's, that's the difference there.
 
(Seth Bradley) (54:14.254)
Yeah, so it's almost like you could be stacking, you know, people are a bunch of people are recruiting for the fund, but those folks are not on there as investors. It's aggregated funds, essentially, which could create a problem, right? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Very interesting. I never even thought of that case study. Yeah.
 
Yeah, I didn't even ask your question though, which was how much money can you make? Right? So typically, typically, and again, we're putting securities laws aside here. We're just talking about kind of industry norms, we'll call it. Maybe 30 % or so is put aside for the capital raising. So 30 % of the GP. let's say there's a syndication where you do a 70 30 split, 70 % goes to the investors, 30 % goes to the general partners. Well,
 
If you bring in, let's say, 100 % of the equity, you bring in all of it, then you'll probably be allocated about 30 % of the general partnership. So 30 % of the 30 % in that example. So you get 9 % of the deal.
 
What did you mean by 100 % of the equity amount following?
 
So if you had to raise, let's say you're closing on a $10 million property and you need to raise $4 million to close it, or let's say the down payment plus capital improvements, something like that, and you bring in the full $4 million, you brought in 100 % of the equity needed to close the deal.
 
Ruben Kanya (55:38.574)
Yep. And then overall, so and then what has happened now? So what's going on now or what's happened over the last couple of years is that there have been some very well-known syndicators in the space get investigated by the SEC and people have said, all right, well, now we need to figure out a different way to raise capital, compliantly. Right. And the answer is actually always been out there, but it's had some difficulties and that's a fund to fund. So
 
people out there, they've heard of a fund to fund. This is more a more prominent way, a more compliant way to raise capital nowadays. But I'll tell you what, comparing it to the CoGP model, it's more complicated. It costs more money and it's just a lot more work for you as the capital aggregator or the fundraiser. So people have avoided it because they've just done the CoGP model because it's easier. But now that the CoGP model isn't as available, people are still doing it, but people are kind of shying away from it because of the
 
the investigations that went on. Fund to Fund has become a lot more prominent and you have companies like Tribe Best who I'm chief legal officer for, full disclosure. We put together a Fund to Fund product where we make it cheaper, easier, more compliant, and you can just do it very easily and within five business days because we do everything for you. So instead of you having to find a securities attorney and a CPA, open a business banking account, file your LLC,
 
Walk your investors through the signing ceremony and get them to wire your funds. We call that herding the cats. Do all these things and put your cap table together, do your distributions, all those things that you'd normally have to do. Tribe Best does. And we do it for a very low price in comparison to what I would charge you if you came to me as a law client.
 
Interesting so I like how you just covered the foundation there. Let's go back to the 10 million dollar example, right? Yeah, you put in equity is you said so this is me saying Equity to close is 4 million. And so I'm bringing in 4 million just so I'm clear is do I have and this is my assumption that a Lot of syndicators are also raising the capital for that 4 million. Is that not correct?
 
Ruben Kanya (57:55.032)
Typically, yes.
 
Okay, so then you're saying, just want to make sure I understand all the different use cases. So I could be 4 million and then the Delta, I can either traditional lending and or have my investors cover the Delta, which would be the 6 million. Is that accurate?
 
Yeah, I mean you can find however you need to fill in that the debt the equity stack Well wouldn't be the equity stack the full capital stack. Yeah
 
Typical though, it more typical that if I'm the GP to $10 million asset that I'm actually going to raise, I don't know, $3.5 million and put 500K on my own money? Is that more typical than I'm...
 
I would say that is typical. Yep. That is more typical. would say prime example idea, $10 million property, get a $6 million, maybe a little bit more, $6, $7 million loan. And then you raise three or $4 million, whether that's from passive investors or whether that's your own capital that you put in, or maybe you bring in fund to fund investors.
 
(Seth Bradley) (59:02.478)
Okay, so that's where I wanted to ask the question, fund to fund. Tell me how that's different than the, bring in 3.5, I bring in 500K to the table, I raised 3.5, now I have a $4 million down payment, we borrow $6 million on debt. Tell me how the fund to fund is different than that approach.
 
Sure. So that deal that you just described, we like to call that when we're talking it with respect to fund to funds, the target deal. So that's the target deal. Like that's the entity and the structure that's buying the asset. So they're buying this $10 million asset. We're actually at the fund to fund level, one level down from there. So we create our own legal structure, our own LLC, and you have your own manager, a fund manager who brings in their own passive investors and they put them in that fund to fund legal entity.
 
And then the fund of fund legal entity actually invests into the target deal. So they come into the target deal as basically a big passive investor. let's say they aggregate a half a million dollars where typically, you know, the average investor might be $50,000. So these are bigger investors. It's just one big investor to the lead sponsor or the target deal, but it's really, yeah, it's really another fund is what it is. So it's a fund of a fund or a fund of a syndication.
 
That is so interesting. so you're saying that is becoming more prevalent. You fund a fund. I mean, I would imagine that's where not to get so far off topic, but that's where a lot of big companies who are deploying their excess capital or investing in. I I guess it's in multiple portfolios, right? Investing, right? mean, there's commercial, there's insurance. I mean, there's so many different things you can invest your money into.
 
Yes.
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:00:46.656)
Is that all fun to fun families essentially?
 
For sure. For sure. Yeah. You know, you can call it a fund. There's different kinds of fund to funds. Fund funds aren't new. They've just been deployed in a different way recently or more prominently or more often, which is this kind of this I'll call it. We like to call it an SPV fund to fund single purpose vehicle fund to fund. Now other people will call it that same thing and mean something different, but the way that we mean it is that we create this fund to fund entity.
 
And it's a single purpose vehicle, meaning it's created only to invest in one deal. So that $10 million multifamily deal, we create a fund of an SPV fund of fund only to invest in that one deal. So it's really just kind of a conduit for your fund to fund past investors to ultimately invest as a group into the $10 million target deal. But as you mentioned, there have been funds and fund to funds around, you know, forever, right? There's more.
 
know, blind pool funds and semi-blind pool funds that, you know, they'll aggregate $100 million in capital. And then when they find a deal they like, they'll put $5 million in this deal and they'll find another deal they like and put $10 million in this deal. And they'll just allocate capital where they want. So that's different than the SPV that's designed only to invest in one deal.
 
So now you mentioned earlier that I had opened up a can of words and I want to please call out the areas where it gets a little bit difficult and hairy because it all depends on the deal, it all depends on the return, it all depends on the value add, if there is a right and maybe that's where you're going but I'm curious like what did you mean when you know going back to the question of okay let's go back to that use case right putting down $500,000 myself right to target right.
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:02:33.518)
Then there's raising 3.5 million for the down payment And then this remaining 6 million is the debt I think originally I had the question of well how much I'm GP here like I put this together right in my charge I get 2 % my charging a 1 % and then maybe and this is where you can enlighten me Maybe is it difficult because it depends how long I hold the asset for? What the exit strategy is? I mean, I just just give us if you you
 
could just some light on, like, you know, you can raise capital. by the way, here's how you get compensated for doing so, right? Considering of course that the goal is not just, hey, I want to make money off of this, you know, for the hard work that you've put in, you're a stewardship of that money and you have to put it to work and you're managing that entire deal, right?
 
What is that compensation like on that kind of, on that $10 million year could one expect? And if you have some percentages and structures that are best practices, I would just love to know.
 
Yeah, just some industry norms that you'll see out there is you'll see the GP compensated as a whole. They'll get some sort of an upfront fee. They'll get some sort of an annual fee. And then you'll get some sort of a profit split on the exit. Now you can charge other fees as well. I mean, you can charge a construction management fee. You can charge a guarantee fee if you guarantee the loan. You can charge other fees like that. But typically those first three are the ones that you'll see on every deal, some sort of
 
upfront fee, annual fee, and a profit split. Industry norms, would say somewhere between one and 4 % for the acquisition fee. I'll just call that the upfront fee. And it depends on the size of the deal, typically. The bigger the deal, the smaller the percentage. The smaller the deal, the bigger the percentage. And then the asset management fee, which is your annual fee, usually is somewhere between one and 3%, something like that. And then your exit fee or your profit split.
 
Ruben Kanya (01:04:33.856)
or your promote, there's a lot of different nomenclature for it. That's highly dependent on the deal. So on a typical multifamily value add, it might be a 70-30 split or 75-25 in favor of the investor or something like that. Maybe even 80-20 if it's a class A asset or something a little bit less riskier. It really just depends on how much meets on the bone. With the development deal, for instance, it might be
 
more in favor of the managers of the GPs. It might be a 50-50 split, something like that. If there's a lot of construction management and ground up, that sort of thing. So it really just depends on the asset type and the deal itself.
 
That's a great explanation. So there's the upfront acquisition, then there's the annual, and then there's the exit. So there's an opportunity. Again, this is a big, it's a big deal. Uh, no pun intended, right? You're literally raising capital. There's a lot of, really, there's a lot of, um, uh, responsibility behind it. Wanted to understand what were some kind of numbers. Um, does that one to 4 % change when you're bringing in, you know, I know you mentioned code GP is, you know, et cetera. Um, but.
 
Is there a maximum or a number that you've seen gets a little bit wacky? Can you have too many cooks in the kitchen? What are your thoughts there?
 
Yeah, for sure. mean, that's, you know, when you're talking about cannon worms, this is probably one of them. I'm really alluding to, you know, the compliance aspects and making sure that you're co-chair with securities laws. And, you know, what happened with the CoGP model that we were talking about before is we're entrepreneurs. So we like to push the limits. So we're like, oh, cool. We can raise capital and we're an active partner. Great. Well, why don't I bring my friend in here? He thinks he can raise $500,000 too. So then I got two.
 
Ruben Kanya (01:06:21.176)
Plus you've got the operating partners. And then they're like, well, why don't we just bring in 10 people? We can bring in 10 people that can raise $100,000 a piece. Why don't we do that? Well, then it gets wacky, right? That's what we're talking about. That's where the SEC would come in and they would say, hmm, okay, you've got 10 people over here that are seemingly raising capital, but they're active partners. Then you've got these operating partners. Maybe there's two or four of them. We'll call it 14. So you've got 14 people in this deal that are general partners on this asset.
 
Tell me exactly what all 14 of these people are doing in an active way. And the answer is they're not doing anything but raising capital. There's probably like, there's probably these four active partners and maybe one or two of these capital partners that are actually participating and the other eight aren't doing anything except here's my $100,000 from my two investors and I'm walking away. And then the SEC is like, that's illegal.
 
Right, because that's not and is the argument that they're not actually engaged or is the argument that they're bringing in somebody going back to what we discussed earlier, or is the argument that they are bringing in somebody else's money that doesn't really have interest into the deal and they're not involved. what's maybe that maybe they're one in the same. I apologize, Seth, but what's
 
no worries. It's that the general partner, this co-GP person, is not an active partner. have to have a job. They have to be participating in the deal. Typically, and it depends on what attorney you ask, but typically they'll have to have some sort of meaningful thing to do, we'll call it, after the deal closes. the SEC-
 
Are you tracking like meeting minutes and like stuff like that going to
 
Ruben Kanya (01:08:02.86)
Exactly,
 
Right. Got it. Okay. So it's actually best practice. You're probably reinforcing that like, Hey, like every meeting it's logged every activity. Like you really need to, to reinforce the, the sec compliance, right. And I'm assuming that's where you come in and you kind of set the best practice kind of terms for, for the, for the
 
You need to get paid for doing something that is not raising capital. That's really what it comes down to. What are you doing that's not raising capital? Because yes, if you're an active partner, you are allowed to raise capital for your own deal, but that can't be why you're getting paid. You can't be getting paid to raise capital. You have to be getting paid to actually do whatever duties that you're doing. So are you asset managing? Are you doing due diligence? You know, the popular one is
 
investor relations, right? We always say we're doing investor relations as a capital raiser because we are, we're managing our investors, but the SEC is probably going to see through that. And really the hallmark is a lot of times you'll get paid based on how much you raise. So they'll be like, okay, Mr. Co-GP, you raised 200,000. Well, you'll say upfront, like, I'm going to give you 5 % of the deal because you say you're going to raise $500,000. And then
 
come to find out you only raised $200,000. And now the lead sponsor goes and says, well, I'm only going to give you 2 % now because you only raised $200,000. Well, that's going to be a big red flag if you ever get investigated, right? Like you're going
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:09:38.659)
So that's not allowed to adjust on the fly.
 
No, because think about it. You're supposed to be getting paid based on your other activities, not on how much you raise. Right. So if you calibrate it, if you backtrack it and say, oh, why raise $325,000? Okay. We get 3.25%. That's going to pretty easy to dig through the docs and see that, Oh, I've got these five co-GPs and this guy raised 325. So he got 3.25 and his other person raised 275 and they got 2.75. See it all the time.
 
If anything goes wrong with the deal and the SEC wants to look into it, it's going to be pretty obvious.
 
Yeah, that's a great call out man. And I'm curious that, you know, I could literally go on. You're giving me a whole master class here. I want to be mindful of your time, but I got to ask you this question. Is it, if I buy the asset with my own money, take on all the risk and then raise capital, is that still kosher?
 
That doesn't change anything. It doesn't matter if you're raising capital before.
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:10:44.366)
So I could put in my 10 million and then raise after.
 
Yeah, it happens all the time. It happens all the time. like you'll see, for instance, I'm trying to think of a good example. A good example is Grant Cardone.
 
I was going to say Cardone I think does that right?
 
Grant Cardone buys his own real estate with his own out of pocket money and he gets a lot of flack because what he does is he inflates the price after he buys it with his own cash because he has so much money, inflates the price, sells those securities to his past investors at an inflated price so they get a lesser deal than he got. So he makes money as the purchaser. Then he also makes money on raising capital on the other side. So it doesn't matter if you
 
If you buy it with your own money to start, if you have passive investors coming into the deal, no matter when it is, or if it's a separate deal, or if it's the same deal, the same entity, a different entity, if you have passive investors, it's a security and you're going to be, you're going to have to comply with all these securities laws that we've talking about today.
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:11:46.978)
That's awesome. That's how you put a bow on it. let me ask you, got Tribevest, which you kind of plug a little bit, but just so we understand, you gave us an entire kind of scope of kind of how you come in into your lab and how you're able to serve others going through a similar path who are trying to raise capital in compliance and as well as possibly invest passively with those who are willing to
 
do all that front work. Where does Tribevest come in and sit in? Is it for the, you know, the person who wants to do it passively? Is it the person who wants to tell us a little bit about where Tribevest kind of, you know, connects all the dots here?
 
Yeah. You know, if you're looking to raise capital compliantly for somebody else's deal, so we would put it in what's called a fund to fund, then that's Tribevest. Tribevest is an all-in-one, done-for-you, fund to fund in a box. We handle all the setup. We do all the fund administration. We set up all the compliance elements. We do all these things for you so that you don't have to do any of them. Like it's literally a business in a box, so you can just focus on
 
the marketing, the sales, the pitching, getting your investors, that's what actually raising the capital. So we do all the back office, all the stuff that you don't want to do so that you can just focus on raising capital. And then it's a very narrow box, right? Like, there's only so many things that you can do with it because we're a SaaS company. So we are a software. We're kind of like a more sophisticated rocket lawyer where you give us the inputs and we fill out.
 
documents for you. And then we hold on all the fund administration and back office things and do that for you. But if it doesn't fit in that box, then that's kind of where my law firm comes in. So if you want to buy the asset yourself, you want to be the syndicator, you want to be the lead sponsor, you want to put together a really sophisticated blind pool fund where you're raising a bunch of money and then allocating a little bit of capital to all these different deals, then that's my law firm. It'll come in. My law firm is called Raise Law and I'll handle
 
Ruben Kanya (01:13:59.684)
the more sophisticated things for you.
 
That's interesting. Yeah, because I think what we talked about, talked about syndication, but then there's funds that basically invest into multiple individual deals,
 
Yep.
 
Real quick, just so we can put this case study and bring it home, try VEST, put it in a case study where you're saying if you're looking to raise capital for somebody else's fund, let's go with our previous example, $10 million asset.
 
Yeah. What's the case study? Yeah. mean, somebody that commonly comes up would be for that same deal. Maybe you've invested in that lead sponsor's previous deal and you're, you know, you have a good network. Like I said, we've seen it time after time. You're a doctor, you're a dentist, you're an engineer, you're a tech person. You already have friends and family who are pretty wealthy and that have seen you invest passively in a deal and they ask you, Hey, how do I get involved? And you're like, well,
 
Ruben Kanya (01:14:56.462)
I can maybe, and then you realize that maybe you can raise a half million bucks. So you bring in your $10, $50,000 dollar investors, put them into one of these Try Best Fund to Funds, and then aggregate that capital, and then invest in that $10 million dollar deal as a $500,000 passive investor.
 
Well, and then your team is handling all the logistics and documents.
 
to handle all the documentation, the setup, the administration, everything.
 
Got it. And I guess when I think of what's in it for me, A, I got to bring people along the way. I'm technically the GP of that fund.
 
That's right. So you get paid for essentially raising capital and you can actually say it here, but it's kind of the same format, right? Like you're getting paid to operate.
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:15:48.098)
Yeah, I'm so I'm so glad we brought this full circle because there is a way you've created a way to be compliant in being able to essentially get paid to raise capital, but you're still again, the steward of the money. But now you have an entire compliance team that's handling the back office needs to be able to do it the right way. Is that right?
 
That's right. And then just to make it clear here, there's also parameters on that on how much you raise and how much you can possibly make. And the industry standard is, at a minimum, you might make 8 % of the raise over the life of the deal. So let's say that's maybe a five-year projected deal, that target deal, up to, I've seen as high as 20%. Now that's abnormal, but I've seen up to 20. And I would say the norm is probably 10 to 15 % somewhere in there that you make
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:16:47.534)
Would that fall in within the you said upfront annual exit does that then fall into the upfront fee in a way?
 
It's part of it. So that's that's the combined upfront annual and profit split. Okay, if you raise them Yeah, so if you raise a million bucks expect to make a hundred to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars on that over the life of the deal and that sounds pretty damn good
 
Yeah, a hundred percent. Cause it's, only a million, put a couple of zeros behind that. You know what we're doing. Seth man. Thank you so much. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I learned so much and it's, it goes back to what we were saying. It's just iron sharpens iron. I appreciate you reaching out and us getting together in the lab here. I think people are going to get a kick out of this one. And I want them to be able to go to an expert that has honesty.
 
Fully integrated solution the man's done walk the walk talk the talk. He even built a software as a service So you can do the same so tell us where we can get in touch with you my man because You're you're a wealth of knowledge and and and you've given us the tools to be able to do it ourselves in our lab So thank you for that. Where can we get in touch with you?
 
Ruben, really appreciate that, brother. Thanks for having me on. Best place would be to just go to SethPaulBradley.com and I update my links there and you can find links to Try Best. You can find links to Raise Law and also connect with me on social media.
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:18:17.72)
That's awesome, man. Make sure you check that out. Seth Paul Bradley.com. My man. Well, just like that, experimentation. We came, we saw, we conquered. Now it's time for you to implement in your lab. Experimentation. believe there are two critical components that will help you achieve your goals very quickly and succeed. Number one, it's information like this that you've received on a show in an episode.
 
Yep.
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:18:46.452)
content that you can find on my YouTube channel or anybody's channel. And then there's a community and the way we've been able to expedite our process, the way people in our community, people that we consult, mastermind members, whoever, they get the information on an episode like this, but then they also have a support, whether it's me guiding them or being guided through a community. There is an opportunity for you listening to be able to expedite your process or even expedite your results that you're seeking by being part of the community.
 
If that is what you're interested in, we at ExperimentNation happen to have a community devoted to helping maximize your occupancy and your profitability altogether, regardless of which market that you are in. And for that reason, you have an opportunity where you can go to experimentrealestate.com forward slash submit. If you're looking to work in an environment that can help you prosper faster.
 
call out any areas that you might not be familiar in, especially the blind spots. That's where a guide comes in hand and I would be a pleasure and honor to be your guide. But in order to make sure you're a good fit, make sure you go to experimentosate.com forward slash submit, so my team can go ahead and take it and see if you're a good fit to join the mastermind and the multiple programs that we have. In addition to that, I'm also now a YouTube partner, which means that I want to give you more access to information, more access to Q and A's.
 
more access to the questions that actually come out of our mastermind to help people expedite the process. We've seen people get anywhere from four to five thousand, six thousand, even seven thousand dollar a month net on just one door by applying the strategies that we use by working with corporations and furnished accommodation in a very strategic way. So if you're interested, make sure you also subscribe because I'm going to have different tiers that's on YouTube now that we've become YouTube partner.
 
to continue to be the bridge to your success in your lab. And your lab means your life, your goals, or wherever you're trying to head. So make sure you also hit the subscribe button on my YouTube channel. That's youtube.com forward slash real estate experiment will be there. You can also look us up at midterm, mental insurance experiment. We will be there. Make sure you hit the subscribe because that's when you will know the tiers that are available to you. That makes sense for you, your marketplace for your results. Remember your only.
 
(Seth Bradley) (01:21:09.95)
one experiment away. Let's build.
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzv9zV5CK30
https://experimentrealestate.com/#blueprint
https://bit.ly/3h40ykk
Seth Bradley’s Links:
https://x.com/home?lang=en
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.facebook.com
https://www.threads.com/
https://www.instagram.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en
Ruben Kanya Links:
https://www.instagram.com/devin.robinson1/
https://www.facebook.com/drob737/
https://x.com/devinrobinson37
https://www.threads.com/@devin.robinson1
https://www.tiktok.com/@devin.robinson1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/devin-robinson-997ba040/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/funds-on-fire/id1801225885
https://open.spotify.com/show/2LiQRSvKGJZZYorjH6RdkS
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtyvPc7RK4QxFGbYTaK-Row

MDM 02 | Million Dollar Monday with Mike Hoffman

In this episode, Mike Hoffman shares how he made his first million in real estate during the COVID short-term rental boom, and his most recent million by turning outdated vending machine routes into modern micro markets stocked with unconventional products like shampoo and Tide pods. He and Seth Bradley explore how his next million will likely come from leveraging artificial intelligence to scale vending and small-business operations. Hoffman highlights the rapid evolution of AI and its power to replace manual tasks, envisioning a near future where AI-driven robots handle everyday chores and transform the landscape of entrepreneurship and business efficiency.
Links to Watch and Subscribe:
https://youtu.be/1EOavier6ug
Bullet Point Highlights:
First million: Real estate + COVID timing (short-term rentals)
Last million: Vending machines → flipped old routes into micro markets
Sold high-ticket items (e.g., $35 shampoo) in vending setups
Tech improvements + AI driving down costs, boosting efficiency
Next million: Scaling vending/small biz ops with AI tools
Believes AI is replacing human roles fast (e.g., virtual assistants)
Predicts humanoid AI robots in homes within 5 years
Transcript:
Seth Bradley (00:00.172)
Welcome to Million Dollar Mondays, how to make, keep, and scale a million dollars. Mike is a super successful entrepreneur in the vending machine business and beyond. Tell us, how did you make your first million dollars?
 
Yeah, Seth, probably actually through real estate and just getting a little bit kind of lucky with timing with COVID and short term rentals and some of that. But yeah, that's probably how I got the first million.
 
Gotcha. Yeah. Real estate usually plays a role in the everybody's strategy down the line, whether they're in, you know, in that primary business or not, you know, whether they start out there or they end up there, real estate usually plays a part. How'd you make your last million?
 
Yeah, that's a good question because it's completely different than real estate, but it's actually been vending machines. that's been kind of fun. just, you you talk about product market fit whenever you're an entrepreneur with a business. And that was just kind of the perfect storm right now of traditional vending really kind of being outdated. And we found a product market fit.
 
with it. Gotcha. Cool. And that was from, was this maybe mostly attributed to kind of buying those routes, those larger routes?
 
Mike Hoffman (01:14.646)
Exactly, yeah, buying old school routes and really kind of flipping them like a house with modern micro markets, charging with different products and what would fit in a vending machine like more of the unorthodox, know, toilet paper and tide pods and things that wouldn't fit in a traditional vending machine. I mean, we'll sell $35 bottles of shampoo in these micro markets. So just kind of go and add it in a different way.
 
Yeah, and then with the aging population, there's got to be more and more of these things popping up. So there should be more opportunity for people to get involved or for people like yourself to just snag everything, right?
 
Yeah, think there's no chance I could snag everything, not even just in this town alone that I'm currently in. I mean, machines are getting cheaper, the technology is getting way better with AI. And nowadays, it's not what fits in a vending machine motor. It's okay, what's shelf space? So if it's a bottle of shampoo or a glass Coke, it doesn't matter because it's not just getting thrown down the chute of a traditional machine.
 
Makes sense, makes sense. Last, how are you planning on making your next million dollars?
 
I think probably with AI, we're doing a lot of interesting stuff with helping people scale their vending routes that is applicable to any small business. And so I'm really intrigued. Just every time I go down a rabbit hole with some new AI tool, I feel like there's another better one that just came right behind it. So I just think it's kind of that time where you can really get ahead by just learning right now in this kind of wave of AI.
 
Seth Bradley (02:49.27)
Yeah, totally makes sense. mean, people that are not paying attention to AI, whether it's simply using chat GBT instead of Google search are getting left behind quickly because it's just advancing so fast. I can't even imagine what this world's going to look like five years from now, the way that things are moving.
 
It's crazy. Three years ago when I was working for a tech company selling software to the government, I would have to work with three secretaries to schedule a meeting with the general to sell their software. Now my EA is literally an AI bot and everyone that's scheduling time on my calendar, they don't even know they're talking to a non-human, which is perfect.
 
Yeah, 100%. I predicted within five years, everybody's going to have a humanoid robot in their home with AI instilled, and they're going to be doing physical things for us at our homes.
 
I hope so. I hope they can go to Costco, get all our groceries, do our laundry, the dishes.
 
Yup. Yup. Awesome,
 
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
Seth Bradley’s Links:
https://x.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
www.facebook.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.threads.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.instagram.com/sethbradleyesq/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbradleyesq/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en
Mike Hoffman’s Links:
https://www.instagram.com/mikehoffmannofficial/
https://x.com/mrpassive_?lang=en
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikedhoffmann/
https://www.tiktok.com/@mr.passive
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en

T1C 02 | The 1% Closer with Mike Hoffman

In this episode, Seth Bradley and Mike Hoffman, Mike Hoffman shares that what sets him apart from others in his field is discipline and focus, particularly the ability to say no to opportunities that don’t align with his goals. Seth Bradley and Mike Hoffman discuss how successful entrepreneurs often achieve success by narrowing their focus and specializing in a specific niche. Mike Hoffman attributes much of his own success to concentrating on vending machines after realizing that this area drew the most interest and results. For those looking to get started in the vending business, Seth Bradley and Mike Hoffman advise leveraging personal connections to secure high-foot-traffic locations and build a strong foundation for growth.
Links to Watch and Subscribe:
https://youtu.be/w_phQef7MOU
Bullet Point Highlights:
Mike credits his success to discipline, focus, and the ability to say no
Emphasizes the mindset: "It's better to be respected than liked"
Believes the top trait of successful entrepreneurs is focus
Success came by niching down into vending after testing other passive income streams
Advises newcomers to start by leveraging warm connections to place machines in high-foot-traffic locations
Examples include urgent care clinics, apartment buildings, gyms, and kids’ studios
Transcript:
Seth Bradley (00:00.162)
You're clearly in the top 1 % of what you do, Mike. What is it about you that separates you from the rest of the field?
 
Ooh, that's a good question, Seth. I think it's just discipline, know, discipline and focus. One of the hardest things is being able to say no with the things that don't align. And when I was growing up, I had a quote that has really stuck with me that's like, it's better to be respected than liked. And I think that really resonates. Like, naturally, as a human, you want to be liked and help people, but the 1 % are really good at saying no.
 
Yeah, I love that man. That's a great answer. Going to build on that. What do you think the number one attribute is that makes a successful entrepreneur? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. The one thing, right? The one thing. That's why.
 
Probably focus.
 
Mike Hoffman (00:47.246)
You come back to like the most successful entrepreneurs, they always niche down and they niche down because they just hyper-focus. Like this is kind of why for me, you know, I started this passive, Mr. Passive on social media before I even got into Vendi. Well, now everyone's like, well, how passive is Vendi? Well, it's like, what's really interesting is I was posting all these different, what I thought passive income streams in the time, but everyone, 95 % of the questions I got about Airbnbs are all my different.
 
investments was about bending. So I just niche down on on bending and I just look back on that and I was like it really forced me to focus.
 
Awesome, awesome. What's one thing someone could do today to get 1 % closer to success in the vending machine business if they are really interested in learning?
 
Tap into your connections and find a location that has high foot traffic, whether that's a friend that works at an urgent care, a sister that lives at an apartment. You take your kid to that gymnastics studio that has a ton of foot traffic between 4 p.m. and 8 p.m. All those locations are prime locations to put one of these modern smart machines in. so tapping into your connections, a warm intro is better than 10 cold.
 
Awesome. Alright Mike, I appreciate it brother.
 
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
Seth Bradley’s Links:
https://x.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
www.facebook.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.threads.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.instagram.com/sethbradleyesq/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbradleyesq/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en
Mike Hoffman’s Links:
https://www.instagram.com/mikehoffmannofficial/
https://x.com/mrpassive_?lang=en
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikedhoffmann/
https://www.tiktok.com/@mr.passive
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en

TME 09 | I’ve Read 236 Business Books: Here Are the 12 That Will Make You Rich

In this episode, Seth Bradley, a successful real estate investor and former attorney, shares his curated list of the 12 most impactful business books that have profoundly shaped his approach to wealth generation, investing, and entrepreneurship. Seth Bradley expresses his frustration with the majority of business literature, but firmly believes in the transformative power of these selected titles.
Seth Bradley emphasizes that achieving financial freedom requires moving away from traditional employment and developing a mindset focused on asset building and strategic operations. Each book he highlights has played a crucial role in guiding Seth Bradley’s journey, offering insights on productivity, relationship management, and scaling businesses effectively. He stresses that success comes not just from reading these books, but from actively applying their principles in real-world situations.
To conclude, Seth Bradley encourages viewers to take action, read these influential books, and implement their teachings to improve both their financial position and overall life outcomes.
Links to Watch and Subscribe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QXX37vgJPE&list=PLSfheWyV7beFqERLX4ebBUJ4SmzmF6z8e&index=4
Bullet Point Highlights:
Transformative Reading: Seth Bradley highlights 12 business books that transformed his financial mindset.
From Employees to Investors: Books teach the importance of shifting from earning through employment to making money through investments.
The Power of Mornings: The “Miracle Morning” book stresses the significance of a structured morning routine for success.
Execution Over Perfection: “The Lean Startup” emphasizes launching quickly and improving based on feedback.
Relationship Building: “How to Win Friends and Influence People” underscores the importance of communication and building relationships in business.
Mindset Shift with 10x Rule: Grant Cardone’s “The 10x Rule” encourages ambitious thinking and significant effort to achieve exceptional results.
Love Languages in Business: “The Five Love Languages” reveals how understanding different communication styles can enhance business relationships.
Transcript:
(Seth Bradley)
[Music] I've read 236 business books and let me tell you honestly most of them are a complete waste of time but these 12 these are the ones that actually made me Rich these books change the way I make money I invest and I run my businesses and before you ask no I'm not including Rich Dad Poor Dad why because it's the purple Bible and if you don't know that one you're already behind so real quick if you don't know me I'm Seth Bradley really estate investor Capital Riser and former big law attorney I left a
 
multiple sixf figureure corporate career because I realized I'd never get rich working for someone else at least not wealthy I don't mess with stocks I don't waste time on 401ks I build businesses and I buy assets so if you want to break free from the 9 to-5 start raising capital and actually control your financial future this is the list you need this is the real playbook for Financial Freedom the books that shaped How I build wealth just stick around and at the end I've got a book you'll never
 
expect but it might be the most important one on the list all right let's get into it book number one it is Robert kosaki cash flow quadrant kosaki breaks down the four ways people make money employee self-employed business owner and investor most people spend their whole lives on the left side trading time for money the rich they're on the right side where businesses Investments make them money while they sleep you know I was making six figures as a lawyer but I was still on the wrong side that's when I knew I had to start
 
buying assets the second I understood this what my man was saying in this book I stopped thinking like an employee and starting moving towards Financial Freedom book number two Miracle morning by how El Rod now it's a solid morning routine is a cheat code for Success when I'm consistent with mine I dominate when I slack off my entire day suffers this book gives you a proven structure to start your day like a high performer if you don't control your mornings you don't control your life one of the
 
biggest takeaways for me was how much intentionality matters if you wake up and immediately start reacting to your world rather than you dictating how you perceive the world emails notifications demands you're already behind but if you take time to focus on yourself set goals and visualize success you'll operate at a much higher level this book will give you the tools to craft a morning routine that sets you up for Success now I do have to say that my morning routine is changed over time I read that book I had
 
a very structured morning I started out I needed that discipline but now I don't necessarily need it as much because I can really get into that flow get into that zone a lot easier I get up I make coffee I take my supplements I sit down and I start doing the hard work first so that morning routine whatever works best for you sometimes you need that structure and discipline to get going then once you kind of harness how you can do that you no longer need to take all those steps number three the 4our
 
work week by Tim Ferris now this one gets a lot of attention and also a lot of criticism but this book it taught me that time is the most valuable asset it's really not about working less and working 4 hours a week I mean for some people maybe but really it's about working smarter before reading this I was deep in the weeds of every task emails admin busy work this book just showed me how to automate how to Outsource how to focus on only high value moves and if you're always busy but not really making real progress this
 
book will change your mindset completely jump into that one for sure here we go book number four traction by Gino Wickman I still use this book every single day most businesses fail because they're a disorganized mess no systems no accountability that was me when I started out and that's how a lot of businesses start out traction fixes that I remember when I first started to grow my real estate business and my legal business at the same time along with the gyms and some other things I had no clear structure no direction and frankly
 
I was working my ass off but wasn't actually growing this book showed me how to implement the entrepreneurial operating system EOS and you can adopt a name for yourself like rais law operating system for me which is just a fancy way of saying here's how to actually run a business that doesn't depend on you doing everything yourself if you're stuck in the weeds this book is absolutely mandatory book number five The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Steven cubby success isn't luck it's built on habits and this book
 
lays them all out the biggest game changer for me be proactive and focus on what you can control not what you can't most people react to life and they wait for things to happen to them and to complain about them but wealthy people we make things happen this book helped me move from being reactive to strategic if you feel like life is happening to you instead of for you this book will completely change your mindset be sure to pick that one up read it every single year book number six the e- myth
 
Revisited by Michael Gerber if you're doing everything in your business then you don't own a business you own a job and that was me before this book I used to think that being an entrepreneur meant grinding 24/7 and sometimes we still do I still do but all I was doing back in the day was creating a high-paying high stress job for myself and that's not the point this book showed me why systematizing your business is the only way to truly scale once I implemented these systems I was able to step back work on the a big
 
picture and finally grow instead of just survive book number seven The Lean Startup by Eric rise most people wait way too long to launch they overthink they over plan they never execute this book teaches you the exact opposite launch first improve later I wasted so much time like many of us early on just trying to perfect things before putting them out there this book changed how I approach every every single business now I focus on launching fast testing and adapting if I read this earlier I would
 
have saved years maybe decades the best businesses don't come from perfect planning they come from Quick execution and constant learning book number eight How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale to Carnegie business is all about relationships and if you don't know how to communicate you're screwed this book taught me how to build connections negotiate better and influence people without being manipulative of course but if you're going to raise Capital you're going to close deals this book is an absolute
 
must read I apply these principles every single day they're simple in concept but they're harder to execute consistently whether it's working with investors Partners employees team members this book is the foundation for strong relationships in business and also in everyday life book number nine the 10x rule Grant Cardone you know he says a lot of controversial things some people give him Flack but this dude knows how to make money most people think too small not Grand this book forced me to build bigger execute at a higher level
 
because everything worth doing takes 10x more effort than you expect if you apply this mindset you're going to stop making excuses and you're going to start making big moves the most powerful lesson here to me average actions they lead to average results if you want to dominate in business and in life you have to push way far beyond what's reasonable that's what separates High performers like us from everyone else if you want success this book will force you to raise your standards always do 10x more and 10x
 
higher all right book number 10 who not how Dan Sullivan this one's incredible successful people don't ask how do I do this they ask who can do this for me who can help me with this this mindset shift completely changed how I run my businesses instead of wasting time learning everything myself I hire experts I ask for help and I let them execute at a higher level before this book I was stuck in the mindset of trying to figure out everything myself once I embrac the who not how principle I stopped being the bottleneck in my own
 
businesses but now I focus on finding the right help finding the best people to execute finding experts in their fields rather than trying to do everything myself so if you struggle with delegation this book is an absolute GameChanger book number 11 how Elrod Strikes Again The Miracle equation so this book it's simple right unwavering Faith plus extraordinary effort and I know that sounds a little kind of flu fluey and that's not really me and it might not be you either but look I mean I say that Mantra to myself every single
 
day it gets hard sometimes so if you don't believe success is inevitable and you're not willing to put in the work an insane amount of effort then you're never going to make it one of the biggest lessons from the book is that mindset alone it's not enough you have to back it up with absolute Relentless action you can't just hope for Success you have to put in the work consistently every single day no matter what no matter how you feel no matter what's going on no matter what obstacles arise this book will shift your perspective on
 
commitment and perseverance remember that saying preach it to yourself every day when gets hard all right book number 12 I told you it would be a surprise on the list I don't think this makes anyone's list for a business book but number 12 the five love languages by Gary Chapman you've all heard of it but let me explain a relationship book sure but business is all about relationships if you don't know how to connect with people you're never going to succeed at a high level this book taught me that
 
people communicate and they receive value in different ways whether it's clients it's Partners its employees knowing how someone feels appreciated will change how you do in your business and how successful you ultimately are for example some people value words about affirmation While others need tangible recognition once I started applying these principles in business and you keep it in your head for all conversations I became a better leader a better negotiator and a better connector if you want to improve your ability to
 
work with people which you will this book will give you an edge a relationship book yes but business is all about relationships remember that if you don't know how to connect with people you'll never succeed at a high level all right there there you go folks the 12 business books you need to Succeed in Business and honestly in life generally read those 12 put them on repeat read them every single year which book hit you the hardest drop a comment below I want to know which one resonated with you the most if you found this
 
valuable hit that like button or subscribe whatever you're watching this on and share it with someone who needs it these books absolutely change my life and they can do the same for you now go take action read those books apply those principles and let's get this money let's go [Music]
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QXX37vgJPE&list=PLSfheWyV7beFqERLX4ebBUJ4SmzmF6z8e&index=4
https://www.instagram.com/p/DHZAmMtTXDA/
https://x.com/sethbradleyesq/status/1902426622608994373
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sethbradleyesq_wealthbuilding-moneymoves-businessbooks-acthttps://x.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
www.facebook.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.threads.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.instagram.com/sethbradleyesq/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbradleyesq/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en

RTBL 05 | How to Stay Compliant While Raising Millions with Bronson Hill

In this episode of the Mailbox Money Show, host Bronson Hill interviews Seth Bradley, an accomplished attorney and entrepreneur known for his expertise in both passive and active investing. Seth Bradley discusses the significant shifts in the real estate market post-COVID-19, including rising interest rates and the challenges passive investors face with underperforming deals. Seth Bradley shares his experiences with multifamily investments and emphasizes the importance of selecting the right financial structures, highlighting how his focus on fixed-rate loans has insulated his deals from the volatility often seen with adjustable-rate loans.
As the conversation progresses, Seth Bradley explores other investment avenues, including ventures in gyms, e-commerce, and oil and gas projects. Seth Bradley and Bronson Hill illustrate how innovation and technology, particularly artificial intelligence, can enhance investment decision-making and operational efficiency. Seth Bradley offers valuable insights into multifamily syndications, risk management, and leveraging technology to improve investment outcomes. The episode concludes with Seth Bradley’s perspectives on effective communication between investors and sponsors, and the critical importance of thorough due diligence documents in passive investing.
Links to listen and subscribe:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/seth-bradley-what-can-i-do-if-a-deal-goes-bad/id1580397502?i=1000698697087
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4pogVHik6rHwh0k5yFLs1U
Links to watch and subscribe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xrvBhGtS5w&t=396s
Bullet Point Highlights:
Diverse Entrepreneurial Background: Seth Bradley is not only an attorney but also a successful entrepreneur with experience in gyms and startups, adding depth to the authenticity of his investment strategies.
Impact of Rising Interest Rates: The podcast discusses how increasing interest rates have shifted the landscape of real estate investments, influencing cash flow and project viability.
Importance of Fixed-Rate Loans: Seth emphasizes the protective benefits of using fixed-rate loans in investments to buffer against economic shifts and rising rates.
Shifting Investment Focus: As traditional multifamily deals become tough, both Bronson and Seth explore alternative assets, including oil and gas, debt funds, and smaller multifamily properties.
Gym Ventures: Seth shares insights from operating gyms, illustrating how franchise businesses can provide a structured path to entrepreneurship with community support.
Navigating Passive Investing Challenges: The episode highlights the key steps passive investors should take when deals aren’t performing as expected, including reviewing existing legal agreements.
Leveraging Technology and AI: The discussion underscores the growing role of AI in analyzing investments and legal documents, showcasing how technology can enhance investment efficiency and accuracy.
Transcript:
hey guys this is Ken mroy and you are listening to the mailbox money show with Bronson Hill hello hello and thank you for joining the mailbox money show my name is Bronson Hill I'm very excited for this episode with Seth Bradley you're gonna really like him he's done a lot of things he's like the renaissance man like he has done uh passive investing he's done active investing he owns a couple gyms he's starting another one he's got a couple startups he does he's got all kinds of things speaking
 
very intelligently to a lot of different topics he also has a show called The passive income attorney actually also an attorney as well and puts together syndication paperwork so he does a lot of different things and so I always love talking to people that are doing many things because first of all inspires me that I'm not doing enough and then secondly um you know they'll speak very intelligently on kind of trends that are happening so he's talks about what what we're going to talk in this interview
 
about what happened over the last few years he's doing less real estate looking at some other things and just what do you do if a deal does not go well what are the steps you can take as an investor so I think you're really going to enjoy this we also get into Ai and some awesome other topics so let's jump in Seth welcome to the mailbox money show Bronson what's going on buddy good to see you again hey man we're both in Southern California I know we're not that far apart but you're in like the better part especially lately with all
 
the fires up in La recently uh you're in San Diego man I don't know anybody that says they don't love San Diego yeah man I mean there's no better place in the United States that's for sure I mean I've seen some some beautiful places around the world and I don't know San Diego still might beat it um I get a little bit used to it because I've been here for quite some time now but San Diego is really tough to beat yeah awesome man well I'm excited to have you here today I know you're an attorney you have your podcast called
 
the passive income attorney podcast and you also work with tri vest which helps investors and you have a lot you to say around uh diligence around deals going bad we've seen deals uh We've we've had a couple deals that have really struggled uh I've been an investor passively in deals some deals that have struggled people don't really talk about this as much and I think it's really important to talk about um but let's let's talk about kind of what's changed the last couple years interest rates have risen um obviously if you're a
 
multif family investor the deals maybe aren't as juicy as they were the projections are a little lower a a little little far between as far as you know deals that actually cash flow or deals that make as much sense but uh what have you seen the last couple years and how have you kind of shifted a little bit of your business and your investing for sure I mean it's been um it's been an experience right I think a lot of the past investors out there that are listening or if you're an operator or lead sponsor out there the same thing
 
I mean we've we've gone through a period of time starting I think back when Co hit in 2020 that was kind of the first dip in the market that we've we've seen in this kind of generation right like the jobs act well I I should say the previous dip was in you know 2008 2009 that was one cycle but that was before the jobs Act of 2012 so the jobs Act of 2012 is where some of these private Investments started being opened up to more people and more people like ourselves were able to get involved and start raising capital and and do deals
 
and you've just seen that market kind of exponentially grow since 2012 um so we haven't seen a downturn until Co hit in 20120 and that one was kind of weird right because it was just kind of a blip it wasn't because of the economy it was because of something that just you know nobody's going to be able to predict um but that's the first uh crack in the armor that we saw and then after that then we saw the interest rates go up in in 2020 towards the end of 2022 and the beginning of 2023 and that's what really
 
started um you know giving us this experience that I'll say that we're we're still kind of going through because the interest rates are still a little bit higher than what we've we've seen over the past years and we're we're seeing more deals go go bad right or or at least you know there maybe a capital call or or two or perhaps um you know some of your distributions if you're a passive investor might be on pause and these are things that we're just not used to seeing because we're just used to seeing over the past you know 10
 
years up till 2022 all the deals have just gone really really well so it's a surprise to us and it shouldn't be because you know it's it's cyclic but we we'll figure it out and you know you're just seeing these things that we've all been warned about and they're now coming to fruition yeah yeah it's interesting you know I think if you between 2010 and 2020 you know 2021 even if you just owned a multif family apartment you were a genius right because things were just only going up and to the right and and
 
then sudden like there's that quote by Warren Buffett says you can only tell who's been swimming naked when the tide goes out kind of thing the tide interest Rising the tide goes out it's like oh my gosh this isn't work in the way we planned it um and now you in your portfolio you guys have done very well you've had some some great you haven't done as many deals more recently but um your deals have done well is that because you did kind of fix interest rate or is just the markets you chose or I'd love to hear a little more about
 
that that's right I mean fixed interest rates to be honest were a huge thing um that that's one thing that we really pushed for in our deals and that's and that saved us a little bit when these interest rates started to r that protected us um you know you saw that those were the deals that got in trouble those those adjustable rates got people in trouble and you know there towards the end like let say 2021 22 it was really hard to make the deals start to like continue to work and get those returns that we promised those passive
 
investors without taking those adjustable rate loans so you know those folks that got in in 2021 2022 maybe the beginning of 2023 those deals had adjustable rate loans and that's where they got into some trouble yeah yeah it's interesting kind of how things have changed now it's interesting too there was um a time not even that you know just a few years ago that that real estate was Cash flowing pretty well especially multif family real estate and now it's pretty tough because you know you got rates are
 
higher uh cost you know the price maybe have come down a little bit but you got higher Insurance you got higher other costs other inflation things you know there's not a lot of cash flow so a lot of you know syndicators or multif family investors have kind of just stepped out or maybe they got pitched on a deal here and there so we we've shifted a little bit to do we still do some multif family in in specific situations but um we' switched to go really focus on oil and gas we're doing uh other types of
 
businesses like I mentioned we're buying this business that's a e-commerce business High cash flow and then there's also debt funds you know debt these days there are debt funds paying like Equity was paying with less risk than it was a few years ago right so if you can get not debt funds are the same there's some that are first position that are low leverage and things like that uh what are are there anything else that you're finding for cashow or that you're finding attractive right now as an
 
investor yeah I mean I think you got to just look a little bit deeper I mean there's still some decent multif family deals out there too and that's always going to be to me kind of like bread and butter right like that's something that we're always going to need it's always going to be um it's always going to be something that people are interested in um because we've all lived in apartments at some point in our lives and I think it's an easy thing to grasp mentally okay like I'm going to invest in a
 
multif family or apartment building because I've lived in one I know what it's like I know how they work people pay rent you collect you you know expenses that sort of thing um but it's it's a lot tougher to find those deals um so people have looked at other things so I've seen a lot of um you know debt funds like you said a lot of people pivoting to um you know even smaller multif Family Properties um you know before we were looking at like 100 200 250 unit properties um now I've seen a lot of people kind of Ratchet that down
 
a little bit and look for some better deals in in some smaller properties maybe in the 25 to 75 unit range range that sort of thing um I've seen people like get into mobile home parks and RV parks after cuz we saw that go quite up quite a bit during CO as well and then came rocketing back down um but now you can kind of see like where where it really sits like now you can see like what the value of that asset is so you can see that the you know what those what they really are without like that big spike for covid and those are
 
turning out to be some pretty good Investments to get involved in too yeah and I know um you know we talked about this before we started recording um you and your wife you guys also operate a business or you guys have a a gym a couple gyms that you operate tell us about that and it's that um I know you're sounds like you're spanning so it sounds like it's going well I need to pop into a gym I'm probably get my butt kicked if I pop in there and you g through the Seth Bradley workout there right so yeah man we have a we have a
 
couple of gyms right now we have one open in Oceanside this is in San Diego uh San Diego County one in Oceanside one in Poway getting ready to open up a third one in anas it's under the burn boot camp franchise fly FL so it's a franchise um and I got uh really interested in franchises for that and then I ended up buying into another franchise I ended up buying into a water restoration franchise called Al dry so we've got a few businesses going um but those gyms are great right like once we battled through again I hate to keep
 
bringing up Co but it keeps coming up um but we battled through Co we opened up right before that hit uh actually one week before it hit so then we had to shut it down and work out outside workout inside we had to do um on online workouts those sorts of things um had our lead trainer in our apartment recording videos and me and my wife were in the background doing the exercises um pretty insane what we had to go through but they're they're doing really well now and luckily my wife has taking over that business and she runs
 
the whole thing so I don't do anything she doesn't even want me involved anymore so it's fantastic it it's actually turned into passive income for me for you it's passive income right for her it's right it's it's Fitness income right but that's you know really a lot of people like um lifestyle businesses you know where you're like it's just I think it's just a cool thing to say I own a gym or own a restaurant or I own this thing I mean a lot of like really wealthy people be like oh yeah I own a
 
Vineyard or I own a I own a horse racing thing or something like that but is it is it I mean you don't have to get into specific numbers but is it pretty it's you're opening another one so it's pretty lucrative to do it it sounds like it's working out well the it's a boutique gy that does kind of boot camp type stuff and you have certain classes you go in and those have become super popular all over the us but especially in big metros like Southern California for sure and look I don't want to say
 
that it's easy because it's it's definitely not you have to have the right mindset you've got to be an entrepreneur you've got to be able to fight through the hard times but you know these these types of businesses they're they're kind of done for you to a certain extent they give you the marketing plan they give you the business plan they give you kind of the proforma that you should be aiming for um especially with a franchise there's there's dozens if not hundreds of other franchisees that are doing the exact
 
same thing you are so you any qu any question or any problem that you're going through they have already went through it or they're going through it so you can bounce ideas off of you know kind of similar to like a mastermind right something like that where you get involved with a few people and it's like oh how can I get around people that have the same problems as me in a franchise there's that's already built in and it's even more it's even more dialed in because these are very specific like
 
brand specific industry specific questions and problems that you can balance those ideas and have those questions answered by your your fellow franchisees um but as far as like profitability again it's great because you can you can predict it like the idea behind it you buy one you figure it out then you buy more and then you keep going you stack and stack and stack and that's how you really make a lot of money in franchises you hear people that own dozens or you know hundreds of Papa John and things like that like you need
 
to be able to stack them um but they're definitely profitable um and they're fun they're it's a fun business like you said it's fun to be able to say that you own a gym it's fun to like walk into your own place if it's a gym or a restaurant or whatever it is and you're the owner it just feels good right it's a little bit more um you know rewarding I should say than some of the other businesses that that we're involved in for me it's you know a law firm and um buying real estate and it's this is just
 
a little bit more rewarding just like being there just the presence and having a um you know having a a brick and mortar space it's pretty cool yeah know I love that it's really interesting you guys I didn't realize you guys are are really Ser serial entrepreneurs I you guys are really both as a couple um is that like tell me a little bit about that dynamic as a couple that you and your wife do that like how is that something you've more LED is it something she's done is it kind of like you just kind of stay in your lanes and
 
like because a lot of times one one spouse or partner will be really risk you know averse or one would be much more risk tolerant and so has that been just like a really you guys are both kind of willing to take risk and kind of move forward in that yeah I think we we both have a really good temperament for it as far as risk tolerance and for me personally that's that's interesting because I'm an attorney so typically attorneys are not risk tolerant um but I I am I have that trait and and she does too um we have certain
 
trust in each other to be able to handle and stay in our lanes um she especially for the gyms you know she's operations right now I handle finance and and Prof formas and those sorts of things and obviously the legal stuff that comes up and I'm the maintenance guy too of course but um but everything else like operations she does that and then when she knows that she needs me for these certain things she'll bring me in um we've explored trying to figure out some other businesses uh that we might be
 
able to get involved in together and I think you know having that experience in the gyms gives us a good idea of how it would work out with some others yeah as she ever teaching the class like if you're in the dogh house you got to take a boot camp with her and she'll be extra tough on you or something ah she's she's not a trainer luckily I would I would I would avoid those camps for sure I think that'd be pretty funny no I think it's great man I love how you've created that you know for yourself that you guys and of course
 
you know I think I've noticed this too a lot of uh there's a lot of people they'll have they'll be really excited about real estate they'll be really excited about investing and then you get one that's one spouse is very risk averse what what do you say to someone who guess their spouse is pretty risk averse and you know maybe they're concerned whether they're a passive investor or they're interested in doing business things are like this like how do how do they kind of get that person on board or what have you seen is kind
 
of work to kind of help them to kind of work forward with that move forward yeah I mean it's tough it's tough right like you have to you have to choose your significant other wisely and it's probably the biggest decision that you'll make in your life not only for personally but also in business because if you have someone that just can't get on board with what you're doing or doesn't understand what you're trying to do um and you don't mesh very well on that side of things it it makes things a lot more a lot more difficult right and
 
you see that all the time you see couples fighting about business and somebody's working too much and the other person's not working enough or those sorts of Dynamics um but I think a lot of it can be solved with education you know a lot of it is just kind of this other person doesn't know enough about the business or the investment or whatever it might be and they just need some education so they're not the person they're not like us every single day just immersed in this and getting on podcasts and you know
 
listening to podcasts and reading books and all this stuff about these Assets in these businesses so you have to keep that in mind like they need to they need to understand to a certain extent so they can get comfortable with it I mean that's you know when people are scared to make moves it's usually because they're just not educated enough to be able to to assess the risk and move forward or not now if they are educated enough and they do know enough about the asset and they still say look this is a
 
bad deal well then maybe maybe you should look at it again and make sure that it's not a not a bad deal but there there's definitely some you know give take there with personality types and how much risk that each person's comfortable with or not comfortable with yeah absolutely I think that's definitely I just I love when I see couples that are like really on the same page and are like yeah we're in this and you're you know you're doing it which is great and be both be active which is awesome um so let's talk a little bit
 
about um I guess you know kind of circle back to you know investing in deals you know as a passive investor um you know if if someone invests in a deal that doesn't go well um how to you know how should a passive investor respond to that or what are the things that you know someone can do if they're not getting the communication that they need I mean I know there's some legal things you can do but then it starts expensive and like what I guess what are some options as a passive investor let's say
 
your sponsor is having struggles or they're just not communicating is there some like what are the what are the what what can you do to try to get that to change yeah I mean this is why paperwork is so important like people don't want to deal with that and you know I'm an attorney so I'm on the front end all the time like telling you telling everybody hey like make sure we hash this out now like let's be have a a really transparent conversation let's figure out exactly what each part is getting
 
into and let's not like hold back at all you know a lot and some of this applies to passive investing some of it doesn't because you you know you have certain things that you can ask for certain things that you can't but be as transparent as possible upfront and with the paperwork and pay attention to what you sign and what you sign up for because at the end of the day when things start to go wrong that's what the fallback is the fallback is okay this person isn't communicating any longer or they're not doing the things that they
 
said vocally they're going to do what can I do and at that point that's when you have to look at the paperwork so if you have a contract and in this case it would be an operating agreement or a limited partnership agreement that you've signed or subscription agreement to you have to go back to that paperwork and look and sometimes they may have put in that paperwork for instance that they do agree to give you a quarterly report or maybe they agree to give you a an annual financial statement or maybe they
 
didn't I don't know it depends on what the paperwork says but that's the first step see what your rights are contractually and that's a good place to start because if you do have a contractual right that they have to give you a quarterly report or they have to give you annual financial statements or if you request it they have to give you certain Financial reports then that's the place to start and you say look I know things aren't going as well as they should be going I really want to get this thing back on track let's let's
 
start communicating but you know pursuing to the operating agreement I I need to see a quarterly report or I need to see this financial report um and put that in writing and writing can be just as simple as an email or text but get it in writing make sure that that communication is documented um not just verbally because if something does go wrong if if there is some sort of and this is unlikely but if there is some sort of fraud or gross negligence or anything like that going on at least you have that uh that written communication
 
between the parties that down the line you can be like look I asked for this five times I still haven't received it they said they would do this and then you can start saying okay at this point maybe we're not just talking about somebody not doing a great job or maybe we're not talking about the investment not going well as well as anticipated maybe now we're talking about some sort of negligence maybe now we're talking about somebody misrepresenting what they said they were going to do versus what
 
they do um but you need to have that in writing so that at the end of the day you can put that together um and and show it to whoever it might be your lawyer their lawyer or maybe a court yeah yeah it's interesting you know there's some new tools out there as well a lot of times these documents sometimes are 80 to 200 pages and there's a lot lot of you know legal Le and boilerplate stuff and just a lot of fine print and I found that one and I'd actually love to know your opinion on this but i' I've done this occasionally
 
where I'll take uh I'll take some some documents or ppms or marketing whatever I'll put them in chat GPT I'll just be like hey you know I'll start asking questions Hey what how does this work how does that work whatever and it'll kind of like go through and pull that out of there which is just kind of like a timesaver I just find for a lot of investors it's like I don't want to spend two hours reading this really you know thick language and I know you're an attorney so that's what you do and um
 
but I mean is that something that you've uh seen some people do or is it I know obviously things can be missed but it's it can kind of help you get to give you the gist of in this situation this happens or in this situation is that something that you kind of seen a little bit 100% and maybe not all attorneys would agree with this but I I encourage that I think it's perfectly fine like you've got to leverage technology and that technology is unbelievable it's unbelievable and it gets better every
 
single day like you just see a new iteration every couple of weeks now it's absolutely insane what it can do and you can certainly upload your PPM your operating agreement your subscription agreement into it and ask it questions now if it's something very nuanced it it won't it won't get to it if there's kind of like a lot of times there's like different Provisions that layer on top of each other it doesn't understand that yet it will at some point it'll be there and probably very very soon but a lot of
 
the questions you ask if they're nuanced um it won't understand it um so what I recommend is do that get a good high level overview you can also ask questions and then I would verify so like once it once it gives you an answer and it's something that's very important like you're like this is the answer that I was looking for ask it be like well what section did you pull this from and then get the section and then look it up yourself that particular section and verify that what it told you is actually
 
the answer yeah it's amazing the uh the tools we have I mean we really are in an an age where there's so much information everywhere but it's being able to access it quickly and it's like AI and some of these things can help with it and I don't think you know just a side note on AI I don't think it's that AI is going to be robots that's going to take over and kill us all or we're going to lose our jobs just to an AI bot or something but it's people using AI right that are are able to become a super employee or a
 
super business owner or super investor and really be able to get more information so I think it can be really powerful um what are uh what are some trends that you're kind of watching um I know actually I want you to talk about this too you're involved with a group called tribe vest which helps uh basically syndicators they have a portal and they can kind of have ways to be able to access uh certain deals and and and pass that information but what are what are also some Trends in relation what are some trends that you're seeing
 
as far as investing uh for Passive investors that are just things that can are good to watch or things that are helpful yeah I mean I think one really good thing is is what you you talked about already it's it's using Ai and and using software to make you a better investor so you can you like before you get this 200 Page PPM and you're like what what in the world do with this and maybe one out of a 100 investors will read that line for line if that and even if they could read it they probably don't understand it unless they they
 
happen to be a Securities attorney or some sort of transactional attorney they're not even going to get it um fun fact a PPM is actually supposed to be in non-legal ease it's supposed to be in in layman's terms that's the whole point of it is so that you can understand your investment in layman's terms but ppms have turned into you know a legal document so yeah even longer um but yeah I mean I think you can start leveraging Ai and software to just be a better investor and not just from you know
 
reading legal documents like we had mentioned earlier that's a good example of of you know when you're looking into an investment maybe put that PPM into chat gbt ask questions about the investment ask if there's any inconsistencies between the PPM and the operating agreement things like that um but you can also use it for underwriting and due diligence and things like that um I'm actually an adviser for a startup called brixley and we are working on kind of a due diligence type of process process where we're aggregating all the
 
due diligence documents we're putting them into a software and then you're able to evaluate the deal so you can evaluate that deal based on your buy box and those sorts of things and it's just it and things like that just change the game quickly right like before it just takes a lot of Manpower um a lot of hours and now it just takes minutes but you still have to have somebody skilled enough to prompt and skilled enough to ask the right questions and skilled enough to make sure that you're not believing the AI and it's not
 
hallucinating um that sort of thing because you've got to make sure that the information gives you is right because right now it does spit out some things that that don't make a lot of sense so you just gota gota be be very careful but people if you aren't leveraging AI in just your everyday life then you're you're getting left behind yeah yeah know you got a fact check on other stories of attorneys like I guess there was an attorney in New York that like just took his whole thing and put it into AI a chat jbt and it wasn't even
 
right it was like totally wrong and they got disbarred or something for doing that so it's obviously an investor the the risk is not going to be disbarred typically it's more you might lose your shorts or something so it's makeing sure you're doing it the right way yeah for sure yeah you gotta be careful you got to be careful but like I said it's getting better every single day like I I think in you know two years it's going to be unrecognizable in in five years we're going to have a humanoid robot in every home that we
 
have like yeah yeah it it really is changing so fast and that's where I think it is really important important to pay attention to technology to try new things if people are not like as a listener if you're if you haven't used chat GPT there's an app you can use for free there's the website get familiar with prompting which is just going in and just being commands I literally use it I'm going to Columbia we're recording this I'm going this week to Columbia and I want here's my nine days I'm going to
 
be here create an itinerary for me like literally created an itinerary based on my values what I want to do and and I can always like go off of that but it's like it's so helpful right it's amazing yeah it's such a time saer it's insane it's insane yeah it is it is uh well Seth I really appreciate you you being here today I just feel like you add so much value both as an investor a business owner an attorney um just love what you're creating with your content and uh can you just share how people can
 
follow your show and how they can hear about you and and some of the things that you're doing absolutely man best place to go would be Seth paaul bradley.com and that's where I have kind of all my social media links you'll have a link to raay law my Securities Law Firm as well as try best fun of funds in a box and the podcast as well awesome brother thanks for being here man all right thanks Bronson appreciate it all right I hope you enjoyed this interview with Seth I just I love the stuff at the
 
end there about AI if you you know you want to go back and Rel listen to that just using chat GPT in your life in your business to look at ppms and even as an attorney said yeah some attorneys don't like that because it will miss things but it's really a timesaver we use it all the time we use it all the time in our business I use it all the time in my personal life and it's just so helpful I literally it's kind of replace my Google search now because it's so much better and instead of we used to go spending
 
time on Google you spend 30 minutes researching something now it just kind of spit out the answer for you which is really great so I use it for health stuff for travel or business topics all kinds of different ideas just find it really really helpful so hopefully you got something out of this interview you enjoyed it if you have not en joined our investment Club you're not hearing about our amazing deals that we're doing right now and that we're really excited about so um if you want to check that out you
 
can check out the link in the uh show notes or the link below or you can go to Bronson equity.com and hit the join button we'll start a relationship with you set up a call with you and you can start hearing about our awesome upcoming deals so thank thank you for taking the time to educate yourself seriously it humbles me it excites me it gets me fired up because the best investment you make is in your own education we look forward to seeing you on the next episode you've been listening to the mailbox money podcast for more free
 
resources articles and videos go to Bronson equity.com there you can download your copy of the Special Report the single best investment strategy during and after a pandemic none of the information shared here is an offer to buy a specific investment and this is for education ational purposes only consult your financial legal and tax professionals and use your own Common Sense before making any investment decisions thanks for joining us and be sure to tune next time for more mailbox money [Music]
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xrvBhGtS5w&t=396s
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1762572444669041
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bronsonhill_when-deals-go-wrong-the-fallback-is-the-activity-7321649659108581377-87lt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAFY-6nMBbbX5J6KeuEtIMcA9tcRG4F_1ItE
Seth Bradley’s Links:
https://x.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
www.facebook.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.threads.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.instagram.com/sethbradleyesq/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbradleyesq/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en
Bronson Hill’s Links:
https://bronsonequity.com/
https://www.instagram.com/bronsondavidhill/
https://www.instagram.com/bronsonequity/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bronsonhill/
https://www.facebook.com/bronson.hill.37/
https://www.tiktok.com/@bronsonequity2020
https://open.spotify.com/show/7AQcShxvRMoD1U2zclQQVU

TME 08 | How to Make Millions with Vending Machines with Mike Hoffman

In this episode, Seth Bradley and Mike Hoffman explore the world of vending machines as a business opportunity. Mike Hoffman shares his journey from a Midwest farm boy to a successful entrepreneur in the vending industry, highlighting the evolution of vending technology and the potential for generating passive income. Seth Bradley and Mike Hoffman discuss the critical importance of location, understanding demographics, and the scalability of vending routes. Mike Hoffman emphasizes the need for upfront work and learning before delegating tasks, while also addressing common misconceptions about passive income in the vending business.
Throughout the discussion, Seth Bradley and Mike Hoffman dive into broader aspects of entrepreneurship, including capital raising, the journey of self-discovery, the influences that shape business decisions, and the true definition of success. Seth Bradley highlights the importance of flexibility, discipline, and focus in achieving entrepreneurial goals, while both guests touch on financial milestones and the traits that set successful entrepreneurs apart.
Links to Watch and Subscribe:
https://youtu.be/aNCkzBp_Mfg
Bullet Point Highlights:
Mike's journey from a classic Midwest farm boy to a successful entrepreneur.
The evolution of vending machines from traditional to smart technology.
Understanding the importance of location in the vending business.
The analogy of baseball levels to describe starting in vending.
Scaling up from single A to big leagues in vending routes.
The significance of demographics in product selection for vending machines.
The potential for passive income with proper systems in place.
The need for upfront work before achieving passivity in business.
Vending is not a get-rich-quick scheme; it requires dedication.
The future opportunities in the vending industry are expanding rapidly. Raising capital can dilute ownership but may be necessary for rapid growth.
Self-discovery often leads to unexpected career paths.
Influences in business can come from personal experiences rather than just mentors.
Success is often defined by the ability to prioritize family and flexibility.
Entrepreneurs work harder than in traditional jobs but gain flexibility.
Discipline is crucial for saying no to distractions.
Successful entrepreneurs often focus on niche markets.
High foot traffic locations are ideal for vending machines.
AI is transforming business operations and efficiency.
Networking and connections can lead to valuable opportunities.
Transcript:
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:04.898)
Mike, what's going on buddy? Doing great brother, doing great. How about you?
 
Mike (00:06.748)
Don't worry,
 
Mike (00:11.664)
Good, I'm a little flustered. I usually have my mic set up over here, but I guess we just moved and it's not here today. I guess, yeah, new office and it's been a whole hot mess.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:19.822)
New office or what?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:27.862)
Nice man, nice. I see you got the whiteboard cranking back there. Love to see that.
 
Mike (00:33.114)
Always. I love your background. That's sweet.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:38.03)
Thanks man, yeah, I'm on camera all the time so I like I need to just build this out instead of using like a green screen so Made the investment made it happen
 
Mike (00:44.86)
Totally.
 
Yeah, absolutely.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (00:49.442)
Have we met in person or not? I don't know if we've met at a Wealth Without Wall Street event or I couldn't tell. Okay. No, I did not go to Nashville last year.
 
Mike (00:58.478)
I don't think so. don't think you're... Were you in Nashville last year?
 
Mike (01:04.634)
No, okay. No, I don't think we've met in person. Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (01:08.256)
Okay, all good, man. All good. Well, cool. I'll just go over the format real quick. We'll do kind of a shorter recording. We're do like 30 minutes, something like in that range. And then we'll just kind of like break. And then I'll, want to record a couple of other quick segments where I call it Million Dollar Monday. I'm kind of asking you about how you made your first, last and next million. And then 1 % closer, which would just be kind of what separates you, what makes you the
 
top 1 % in your particular vertical. So we'll just kind of record those separately. Those will be real short, like five minutes or so.
 
Mike (01:44.924)
Okay, yeah, I'll follow your lead. All good.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (01:47.15)
Cool. Cool. Let's see. I think I already have this auto recording. So we're already recording. So I'll just jump right in.
 
Mike (01:55.377)
Okay.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (01:57.782)
Welcome to Raise the Bar Radio, hosted by yours truly Seth Bradley. We today we've got Mr. Passive, Mike Hoffman. Mike, welcome to the show.
 
Mike (02:08.189)
Thank you for having me fired up to be here.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (02:10.855)
Absolutely man, really happy to have you on. I know it's been a little bit of a trek here to get our schedules lined up, but really stoked to have you on today, man. I see you said you moved into a new office. You've got the whiteboard cranking, so love to see it.
 
Mike (02:25.372)
yeah, whiteboards are the only place I can get my thoughts down.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (02:29.399)
Yeah, man, it makes a difference when you actually write something rather than type it or even on a mirror board where you're doing it online. just there's something about physically writing something down.
 
Mike (02:41.328)
You know, I'm glad you said that because yesterday I flipped to Seattle for a quick work trip and I didn't have wifi and I literally had three pages of just, I, was so like the clarity of some of these kinds of bigger visions I have now from just being able to write for an hour on a flight was, I was like, man, I gotta do this more often.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (03:00.363)
Yeah, for sure. The key though is once you write it down, it just doesn't go into the trash or into a black hole somewhere where you never see it again. So that's kind of the disadvantage there. If you have it on your computer and you're taking notes or you have it on a mirror board, at least it's there to reference all the time. If you write it down on paper, sometimes, I've got my Raze Masters book right here for notes, but it's like, it might go into the abyss and I'll never look at it again. So you gotta be careful about that.
 
Mike (03:27.184)
Yeah, yeah, I need to check out the Miro boards. I've heard a lot of good things about them.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (03:31.467)
Yeah, yeah. Awesome, Mike. Well, listen, for our audience who doesn't know anything about you, maybe just tell them, you know, tell them a little bit about your background. Tell them about your your main business and we can take it from there.
 
Mike (03:43.354)
Yeah. So I think for those that don't know about me, I'm a classic Midwest farm boy started with a classic, you know, showing cattle at the county fair and all of that and had a lemonade stand growing up. And then my first job was actually at McDonald's, you know, thinking about the whole success of that business model. But when I was coaching and, out of college, I got my first rental and I was like, wow, this is crazy. making money without.
 
really much time involved. and then with my work in Silicon Valley, know, Seth, was classic Silicon Valley, you know, cutthroat job that, startup life and traveling three weeks out of the month. And I was on, I was in airports all the time. And was like, these vending machines I would run into at airports were just so archaic. And so I went down this path of like unattended retail and kind of the future of, of that. And that's really where I just see a huge opportunity right now.
 
And so it's kind of what led me into all these different income streams that I'm passionate about.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (04:49.431)
That's awesome, man. Well, let's dive into that a little bit deeper. me about these income streams. It centers around vending machines, right? But I'm sure there's a lot more to it. I'm sure there's a lot of different entry points for people. Maybe just kind of give us a general synopsis to start out.
 
Mike (05:06.78)
Yeah, so I think the big thing with, you know, if we're talking vending specifically as an income stream, you know, most people think of vending as the traditional machines where you enter in a code, you put your card on the machine and then a motor spirals down a Snickers bar or a soda and you go into the chute and grab it.
 
Nowadays, there's these smart machines that literally you just unlock the door, or even if you go into, land in the Vegas airport right at the bottom of the escalator where it says, welcome to Las Vegas, there's a 7-Eleven with gates and AI cameras, and there's no employees in the 7-Eleven. And it just tracks whatever you grab and to exit the gate, you have to pay for it. So like, there's just this huge market now where we just installed it in urgent care.
 
less than two months ago and we can do over the counter meds in that machine because it doesn't have to fit into a motor. It's just shelf space. You identify with the planogram with the AI cameras like, okay, Dayquil in this slot or Salad in this slot and then whatever they grab, gets charged to the person that pulls it from it.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (06:15.469)
That's interesting, man. Yeah, I mean, my initial thought too, was just like the traditional old vending machine where you're getting a candy bar or a cola out of there. But yeah, nowadays, now that you mentioned that, you see this more and more every single day where you've got these scanners, you've got kind of self-checkout, that sort of thing. So that's kind of, that expands that world and really opens it up to the future, right? Like it just really, that's what we're trying to get to, or at least we think we wanna get there, where we're kind of removing humans and...
 
kind of working with technologies and things like that.
 
Mike (06:49.488)
Yeah, and I think, you know, removing the whole human thing. mean, those machines still got to get stocked and you know, there's not robots running around doing that. But I just come back to, I was a Marriott guy when I was on the road all the time and I'd go to these grab and goes at a Marriott and grab a, the end of the night, I'd grab like a little wine or an ice cream sandwich. And I literally had to go wait in line at the check-in desk behind three people checking in just to tell them, Hey, put these on.
 
room charge and I was like if I had a checkout kiosk in that grab-and-go I could have just removed all the friction for this customer experience.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (07:27.772)
Right, 100%. Yeah, I mean, there's a place and time for it and there's more and more applications for it that just pop up every single day and you can kind of spot that in your life as you're just kind of moving through, whether you're checking into your hotel or whatever you're doing.
 
Mike (07:41.456)
Yeah, yeah. So that's just kind of what excites me today.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (07:45.973)
Yeah, yeah, so when a stranger asks you what you do just in the street, what do you tell them? Because I have a hard time answering that question sometimes too, but I'd love to hear what your answer is.
 
Mike (07:56.804)
Yeah, I would just say it depends on the day. You know, what do you do or what's your, you know, it's like at the golf course when you get paired up with a stranger and they're like, tell me about what you do for your career. And I just say, I'm a classic entrepreneur. And then I'm like, well, what do you do? And it's like, well, tell me about the day. You know, what fire are you putting out? Like today we just got the go ahead for five more urgent cares for our local route. But then, you know, we have a community of operators across the country that we help really build.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (07:57.933)
haha
 
Ha ha ha.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (08:09.879)
Yeah. Yeah.
 
Mike (08:25.616)
Vending empires and so we had a group call this morning. So literally, there's a lot of just, you know, it's classic entrepreneurial life. You never know what the day's script is gonna be.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (08:36.161)
Yeah, for sure. And you focus a lot on not only on your own business, but also teaching others, right? Teaching others how to kind of break into this business.
 
Mike (08:45.402)
Yeah, that's my passion, Seth. When I got into my first investment out of college was a $70,000 rental, you know, putting 20 % down or 14K and using an emergency fund. like my background in going to college was as a coach. like I knew I wanted to kind of take that mindset of like coaching people, you know, teach them how to fish. I don't want to catch all the fish myself. It's just not fulfilling that way. So that's really where my passion is.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (09:15.373)
Gotcha, gotcha. tell me about like, tell me about step one. I mean, how does somebody break into this business? Obviously your own personal business is probably very advanced. There's probably a lot more sophisticated investing strategies at this point and you've got different layers to it. But somebody just kind of starting out that said, hey, this sounds pretty interesting. This vending machine business sounds like it can be passive. How do you recommend that they get started?
 
Mike (09:40.57)
Yeah, so I'm always, I view like the whole vending scale as similar to Major League Baseball. You got your single A all the way up to the big leagues. And if you're just starting out, I always recommend like find a location where you can put a machine and just learn the process. Like to me, that's single A analogy. you know, that always starts with, people want to jump right to like, well, what type of machines do you recommend?
 
products, how do you price products? And the first question I'll always ask Seth is, well, what location is this machine going in? And they're like, well, I don't know yet. I was just going to buy one and put it in my garage to start. And it's like, no, you need to have the location first. So understanding that, is it a pet hospital? Is it an apartment? Is it a gym? Where is the foot traffic? And then you can cater to what's the best machine for that type of location.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (10:36.887)
Got it, got it. Now is this a kind of a rent, you rent the space to place the machine with that particular business or wherever you're gonna place it or how does that all come together?
 
Mike (10:47.644)
not typically, some people are kind of more advanced, like apartment complexes are used to the revenue share model. So they're going to ask for a piece of the pie for sure, for you to put the machine in their lobby. but like, you know, when we're talking urgent carers or even pet hospitals are viewing it as an amenity. And so we probably have, I don't even know how many machines now 75 now, and we, you know, less than half of those actually,
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (10:50.423)
Okay.
 
Mike (11:15.1)
us rent or ask for a revenue share to have them in there. So I never leave lead with that, but we'll do it if we need to get the location.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (11:23.989)
Interesting gotcha. So it's really a value add for wherever you're gonna place it and that's how most people or I guess most businesses would look at that and then you're able to capture that that space
 
Mike (11:27.366)
Mm-hmm.
 
Mike (11:34.236)
Yeah, absolutely. So, um, a great case study is we have a 25 employee roughing business here in Oregon. And you might think like, only 25 employees. It's not going to make that much money. Well, we do $1,200 a month. And the cool thing about this, Seth, is the CEO of this roughing company literally did napkin math on how much it costs for his employees to drive to the gas station during their 20 minute break. And then
 
How much they're paying for an energy drink at the gas station and then how much gas they're using with the roofing like the work trucks to get to and from the gas station So he's like I want to bring a smart machine into our warehouse Set the prices as half off so that four dollar monster only costs his rofers two dollars and then we invoice him the the business owner every month for the other 50 % and so he actually
 
Calculated as a cost savings not asking for money to rent the space
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (12:35.597)
Yeah, gotcha, gotcha. That makes sense. That makes sense. I love the baseball analogy with the single A, double A, triple A, even into the big leagues here. know, a lot of the folks that listen to this are already kind of, you know, in the big leagues or maybe think about some capital behind them. Like how would they be able to jump right in, maybe skip single or double A or would they, or do you even suggest that? Do you suggest that they start, you know, small just to learn and then maybe invest some more capital into it to expand or can they jump right to the big leagues?
 
Mike (12:48.891)
Yeah.
 
Yeah.
 
Mike (13:03.966)
I think they can jump right to the big leagues. this is, I'm glad you brought this up because just listening to some of your episodes from the past, there's no doubt that you have people that could buy a route like a off biz buy sell today. And I think this is a prime opportunity. it's very similar to flipping a house. you, you know, there's a route in Chicago, I think it was for $1.1 million, you know, whatever negotiating terms or seller financing or, or what have you, got a lot of, your, your
 
audience that is experts in that. But the cool thing about these routes is they have the old school machines that have the motors and that are limited to, this type of machine, you can only fit a 12 ounce cannon. Well, guess what? The minute you buy that route, you swap out that machine with one of these micro markets or smart machines. Now you just went from selling a 12 ounce soda for $1.25 to now a 16 ounce monster for $4.50.
 
Well, you just bought that location based on its current revenue numbers and by swapping out that machine, you're going to two or three acts your revenue just at that location. And so it's truly just like a value play, a value upgrade, like flipping the house of, okay, there's a lot of deals right now of these routes being sold by baby boomers where it's like, they got the old school Pepsi machine. Doesn't have a credit card reader on it. They can't track inventory remotely via their cell phones. So
 
They're not keeping it stocked. Like all those types of things can really play in your favor as a buyer that just wants to get to the big leagues right away.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (14:37.651)
I love that. When you say buy a route, what are you really buying? Tell me about the contractual agreement behind that. What are you really buying there?
 
Mike (14:47.184)
You're just buying the locations and the equipment associated with it. So like this Chicago route, it's like, we have machines in 75 properties all across the Chicago suburbs. And they could be medical clinics. could be apartments. could be employee break rooms at businesses, but that's when you start diving into those locations. It's like, I have a snack machine and a soda machine here. Well, you swap that out with a micro market that now instead of.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (14:49.279)
Okay. Okay.
 
Mike (15:13.626)
that machine that'll only hold a small bag of Doritos that you charge two bucks, well now you get the movie size theater bags that you can really put in there in a micro market. Like naturally just that valuation of that route based on those 75 machines current revenue, I mean you're gonna be able to two or three X your revenue right by just swapping out those machines.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (15:35.959)
Wow, yeah, I love that analogy with real estate, right? It's just like a value add. It's like, how can I bring in more income from what already exists? Well, I need to upgrade or I need to put in some capital improvements, whatever you want to call it. Here's the vending machine upgrades or a different kind of system in there. And you get more income. And obviously that business in itself is going to be worth more in a higher multiple.
 
Mike (15:58.396)
Absolutely. mean, a great example of this is we had a machine in an apartment complex and it was your traditional machine with the motors and you have to enter in the code. Well, we could only put in four 12 ounce drinks and then chips. Well, we swapped that out with a micro market. Well, now that micro market, we literally put in bags of Tide Pods for laundry, like these big bags of Tide Pods. We'll sell those like hotcakes for 15 bucks. And our old machine,
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (16:25.281)
Yeah, let's say those aren't cheap.
 
Mike (16:27.246)
Yeah, our old machine Seth, it would take us to get to 15 bucks, we'd have to sell eight Snickers. That's one transaction.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (16:33.547)
Right, right. Yeah, yeah. How do you do an analysis kind of based on like what you think is gonna sell there, right? Like you're replacing, let's say a Dorito machine with Tide Pods, you know? So you have to individually go to each location and figure out what will work, what will sell.
 
Mike (16:47.738)
Yeah.
 
Mike (16:51.834)
It's all about demographic. Absolutely. So, you know, we have, we have, we have a micro market and a manufacturing plant that's, it's a pumpkin farm and there's a ton of Hispanic workers. So we do a lot of like spicy foods, a lot of spicy chips. do, we do a ton of, mean, the sugar or sorry, the glass bottle cokes. They do, they love their pastries.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (16:53.431)
Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (17:06.349)
Yeah.
 
Mike (17:15.868)
So we just doubled down on the demographics. So yesterday I was filming at one of our micro markets that's in a gym and they crushed the Fairlife protein shakes, like the more modern protein shakes, but they won't touch muscle milk. So we're literally taking out one row of muscle milk just to add an extra row of Fairlife shakes. So you're constantly just catering to the demographics and what's selling.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (17:40.632)
Yeah, yeah, this is awesome. I mean, this is literally just like real estate, right? Like you go and you find a good market. You're talking about demographics, right? Find the market, see what they want, see how much you can upgrade, how you can upgrade. If it's an apartment, it's a unit. If it's here, it's the product that you're selling and the type of machine, or maybe it's a mini market. A lot of things to kind of tie your understanding to here.
 
Mike (17:45.926)
Yeah.
 
Mike (18:05.904)
Yeah, absolutely.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (18:07.615)
Yeah, awesome, man. Awesome, Where are you at in your business? Like what, you know, what are the big leagues looking like right now? You know, what are you doing to expand your business, raising the bar in your business?
 
Mike (18:18.692)
Yeah, I'm going after that's a really good question. I'm going after kind of these newer markets and we're kind of past that point of like, okay, let's pilot in this location. For example, that urgent care, we didn't know if it was going to be a good location two months ago when we installed. Well now it's already crushing it. Well, there's six other urgent cares in town and we just got to go ahead on five of those six. So like for me, it's doubling down on our current proof points of where.
 
okay, we know that manufacturing plant, the pumpkin farm does really well. So let's start getting intros to all their, manufacturers of the products they need to grow pumpkin. know, like we're just doubling down on scaling because now we have the operational blueprint to really just kind of to go after it.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (19:03.917)
Gotcha, gotcha. Tell me about how passive this can really be, right? So I used to have, before we switched over to the new brand, Raise the Bar podcast, it was the Passive Income Attorney podcast, right? I was really focused on passive investments, focused on bringing in passive investors into my real estate deals, things like that. And I think that word passive gets thrown around quite a bit, right? And sometimes it's abused because people get into things that are not truly passive.
 
Mike (19:18.427)
Yeah.
 
Mike (19:28.784)
Mm-hmm.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (19:33.517)
What's your take on that as it relates to the vending business?
 
Mike (19:38.49)
Yeah, so I think as far as with the vending business, there's clearly upfront leg work that needs to be done, whether that's finding locations or any of those things. So I have a route that is here in Oregon, and then we bought a route last year in Illinois and have scaled that route. I spend 30 minutes a week on each route now. that these urgent cares and stuff, like we have an operator that's running the whole route.
 
Here's the problem, Seth. It's like people are so scared to build systems to ultimately systemize things or they're too cheap to hire help. And I'm the opposite. like, you know, kind of like Dan Martell's buy back your time. Like I have like a leverage calculator and like I constantly think about is this worth my time? Cause as you know, you're busier than me. Like it's so limited.
 
for me, my routes, I would consider them passive, like one hour a week is, is nothing in my mind. But as far as like, you know, I'm, I'm also a passive investor on, we're building a, an oil loop station in Florida and I sent my money a year ago to, to my, active investor and I haven't talked to him since. Like that's actually truly probably passive now, you know, I'm not doing anything, but there's, there's different levels to that. And I'm a huge believer like.
 
don't delegate something until you know what you're delegating. So people that want to start with the vending routes, sure, if you want to buy a route that already has an operator, that's one thing. but these, if you're starting a vending route for your kid or for your stay at home wife or whatever, as a side hustle, like get in the weeds and install that first machine. So when you hire help to take over the route, you know what you're delegating.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (21:09.773)
Mm-hmm.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (21:27.021)
Yeah, that's key. That's key. And you you described just like any other business, right? I think that's kind of where people get themselves into trouble. That sometimes they get sold the dream that is truly passive. And eventually it can be. I mean, you're talking about an hour a week. To me, that's pretty damn passive, right? But you know, upfront, you you've got to learn the business. You've got to know what you're getting yourself into. Like you said, you've got to learn before you delegate so that you know what you're delegating.
 
There is going to be some upfront work and then as you're able to kind of delegate and learn Then you can make it more and more passive as you go
 
Mike (22:00.88)
Yeah, I mean, it's no different than what's the same when people tell you that they're busy. I mean, you're just not a priority. Like that's a fact. you're not. People say it's the same thing when people come to me and they're like, I'm so busy. It's like, okay, well let me, let me see your schedule. Where are you spending your time? You know, it's like when people are like, I can't lose weight. Okay, well let me see your food log. What did you eat yesterday? Did you have ice cream? Like this is like the same kind of thing. That's where passive I think has been really abused.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (22:16.097)
Yeah. Yep.
 
Mike (22:29.638)
To me, the bigger issue is like, vending is not get rich quick. And so like, if you're expecting to leave your nine to five tomorrow and vending is going to make up for that in one day, like that's not going to
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (22:41.089)
Right, Makes sense. Speaking of passive, do you raise capital or do you have any kind of a fund or have you put together a fund for something like this?
 
Mike (22:51.48)
We haven't put together a fun, we're definitely buying routes is definitely becoming more and more intriguing. And I know there's some PE players starting to get into the vending game, but it's something we've been definitely considering and on our radar of do we want to.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (22:58.541)
Mm-hmm.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (23:10.231)
Gotcha. Cool. I mean, you brought in money partners for some of those routes yet, or is that still something you're exploring too?
 
Mike (23:18.168)
No, I think it's just something we're thinking about. mean, what do you recommend?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (23:21.089)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'd recommend I mean, it depends, right? Like I'm I'm scared to turn you by trade, but I don't like to say you should always raise capital no matter what. Right. Like you've been able to scale your business as you have and grown it to where it is without bringing outside capital. It sounds which is great because you own 100 percent or with whatever business partners you might have. You know, when you start raising capital, you're giving a large chunk of that piece away, not necessarily your whole company. But if you're buying
 
you know, a set of routes or that sort of thing. You you're gonna give a big piece away to those past investors if you're starting a fund or even if it's up. Even a single asset syndication here for one of these, you know, these routes, you could put it together that way. You know, it's just something to consider. But a lot of times when people are looking to scale fast, right, if they wanna grow exponentially, you've gotta use other people's money to get there or hit the lottery.
 
Mike (24:08.294)
Mm.
 
Mike (24:15.856)
Absolutely, no, agree. That's spot-on and I actually before you know the Silicon Valley company That I was part of we had a we went through probably series a B C D C ground
 
Let's just say we weren't very fiscally responsible. So I come from the, you know, it's like the ex-girlfriend example. I don't want to just start taking everyone's money.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (24:42.413)
Yeah, yeah, that tends to happen with some startups, right? Like before you get funding, you're super frugal because it's your money and every single dollar counts. And you're like, I don't want to pay, you if it's software, you don't want to pay the software engineers. I'm going to out, you know, put it, you know, hire Indian engineers, that sort of thing. And then once you get a few million bucks that you raised in that seed round, then it just goes and you're like, whoa, wait a minute, let's hire 20 people. You know, it's you got to be careful about that.
 
Mike (25:05.606)
Yeah
 
Yeah, yeah, that's a great, great take on it.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (25:11.245)
Yeah, it's, yeah. It's a question I love to ask and I think it's about time for that. So, in a parallel universe, tell me about a different version of you. So a different but likely version, right? Like, for example, for me, I went to med school for a year and a half and then I dropped out and I ended up becoming an attorney. So that was like a big turning point, right? So I could have easily at some point just said screw it and became a doctor and that would have been a totally different route than I'm going down right now.
 
What's an example of something like that for you?
 
Mike (25:42.524)
Wait, are you being serious about that? I took the MCAT too. I got into med school and then I, yeah, I was pretty mad in school. And then the more I learned about exercise science, I was like, organic chemistry is not fun.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (25:44.321)
Yeah, totally.
 
yeah? There you go.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (25:57.39)
It is not fun. I did not love that. I majored in exercise physiology and then I ended up switching to biology because it was just a little bit of an easier route to get my degree and go into med school and I went for a year and a half and then I dropped out because I absolutely hated it. I knew I didn't want to do it. I was just more attracted to business and that sort of thing.
 
Mike (26:16.346)
Yeah, that's crazy. That's awesome. parallel universe. I, that's a really good question. I don't know. I, kinda, I have two kids under three and the other side of me wishes I would have traveled more.
 
you know, I mean, we'll get there hopefully when they get out of high school and someday. But right now I just think there's so many different cultural things and ways to skin the cat. And it's just fascinating to learn some of those things.
 
Mike (26:55.352)
yourself in those cultures.
 
go to different cultures and really like understand how they did things for a time, a period of time to really just learn their thinking.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (27:07.777)
Yeah, I love that man. I had a similar experience of what you're describing. I didn't travel abroad really other than like, you know, Canada and Mexico until I studied abroad in Barcelona during law school and I got to stay there for a couple of months. So you actually had some time. It wasn't like you're just visiting for a week or a weekend or anything like that. You got to kind of live there right for a couple of months and it just totally changed my, you know, my outlook on life and just the way that you see things like I feel like we're in the US and we just think
 
Mike (27:19.627)
Seth Bradley, Esq. (27:37.76)
US is number one and there's only one way to do things the way that we do things that kind of attitude. And then when you go to Western Europe and you see that culture and you drive or get on a train, it's like an hour away and you're in a totally different culture and they're doing it a certain way as well and it's working. You just see that other people are doing things differently and still being successful at it, still having a thriving culture and it's just awesome to see.
 
Mike (28:03.312)
Yeah, absolutely.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (28:06.251)
Yeah. Tell me about some major influences in your life. What turned you or got you into that, the vending business? It's not one of those typical things. mean, I know you're in the education business, so you're kind of really spreading the word about this type of business. But I would say when you started, there might not have been a mastermind or educational courses around this. mean, how did you kind of get drawn into that? Were there any particular people or influences that brought you in?
 
Mike (28:29.308)
you
 
Mike (28:36.188)
Yeah. So the, biggest influence for me to get into vending, uh, wasn't actually a person. It was actually, was, um, I had landed, I was coming back from the Pentagon from a trip back to the Bay for the startup we were talking about. And I was in the Denver airport and 11 PM, you know, our flight was delayed. And then they're like, Hey, you have to stay in the airport tonight. The pilot went over their hours for the day, blah, blah, blah. So I went to a vending machine and I remember buying a bottle of water.
 
I think it costs like at the time three bucks or something. I knew that bottle of water cost 20 cents at Costco. And I was like, there is someone that's at home with their kids right now making money off me and they're not even at this mission. Like the machine is doing the work. So I had like an aha moment of like, what are my true priorities in life? And like, why am I chasing this cutthroat startup from.
 
Palo Alto and trying to make it when reality was my priorities are freedom to spend more time with my family. So that's really kind of what led me into this path of starting a vending machine side hustle to keep our lifestyle as we had kids. We wanted to have a nanny and we wanted to be able to still go on dates and things like that as a couple with my wife. So that's really kind of my family and just like...
 
having the freedom to do things. Like that's what I'm really passionate about.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (29:59.084)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, building on that, and you may have already answered that, but what does success look like for you?
 
Mike (30:01.766)
next
 
Mike (30:06.268)
an empty calendar.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (30:08.621)
Good luck with that. Good luck with that.
 
Mike (30:11.516)
Oh man, I was gonna say, how do we crack that code? No, yeah. No, but I think success to me is doing things like picking up my daughter at three and even being able to say no to the things that aren't gonna get you to where you need, like the discipline piece of this too.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (30:15.708)
man.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (30:33.995)
Yeah, yeah, mean, you know, for me, it's kind of similar, right? It's not going to be able to empty that calendar. Not yet, at least maybe here in the future. But for now, it's pretty filled. But it is it's flexible, right? Like us as entrepreneurs, you know, we probably work more than we ever worked when we were in our W-2s. But at the same time, it's you know, we're working in our own business for ourselves, for our families. And we have the
 
Flexibility, a lot of people will say the freedom, right? But we have the flexibility to move things around. And if you want to pick your kids up at school at three, or you do want to take a weekend off, or something comes up in your schedule, you have the flexibility to do that. Whereas if you're kind of slaving away at the nine to five, you can't really do it.
 
Mike (31:04.486)
Yeah. Yeah.
 
Mike (31:20.198)
Yeah, that's spot on. mean, I just wrote that down, but flexibility is, cause you're right. When you started becoming an entrepreneur, this is what I tell people all the time when they want to get a venting around is like running your own business. You are going to work harder than you do for your boss currently at your W-2. Like you have to do payroll. You have to do, like you gotta like make sure there's money to actually do pay, you know, like all those things that you just don't even think about when you have a W-2. It's like, today's
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (31:39.543)
Yeah
 
Mike (31:48.89)
You know, this Friday I get paid. Well, when you run a business, mean, that money's got to come from somewhere.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (31:51.905)
Yeah
 
Right, yeah, 100%, man, 100%. All right, Mike, we're gonna wrap it up. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Tell the listeners where they can find out more about you.
 
Mike (32:05.286)
Yeah, so thanks for having me. This has been great. I have free content all over the place. can find me on the classic Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, but I also have vendingpreneurs.com is where we help people that are more interested in actually the vending stuff. But I've been really trying to double down on YouTube lately because there's just a lot of content and you can't get it off a one minute reel.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (32:32.417)
Love it, man. All right, Mike, appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the show.
 
Mike (32:35.91)
Thanks for having me.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (32:37.227)
Hi brother. Alright man, got a couple more questions for you. We do like a quick, kind of do the full podcast episode and then I'll just do kind of a quick episode that'll follow up on a Monday and then another one on a Friday. Cool.
 
Mike (32:55.814)
See you.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (32:59.693)
We out here.
 
Welcome to Million Dollar Mondays, how to make, keep, and scale a million dollars. Mike is a super successful entrepreneur in the vending machine business and beyond. Tell us, how did you make your first million dollars?
 
Mike (33:20.922)
Yeah, Seth. It was probably actually through real estate and just getting a little bit kind of lucky with timing with COVID and short-term rentals and some of that. But yeah, that's probably how I got the first million.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (33:25.229)
Mm.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (33:37.079)
Gotcha, cool. Yeah, real estate usually plays a role in the everybody's strategy down the line, whether they're in that primary business or not, whether they start out there or they end up there, real estate usually plays a part. How'd you make your last million?
 
Mike (33:53.956)
Yeah, that's a good question because it's completely different than real estate, but it's actually been vending machines. So that's been kind of fun. just, you you talk about product market fit whenever you're an entrepreneur with a business. And that was just kind of the perfect storm right now of traditional vending really kind of being outdated. And we found a product market fit with it.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (33:57.57)
Right. Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (34:16.215)
Gotcha. Cool. that was from, was this maybe mostly attributed to kind of buying those routes, those larger routes?
 
Mike (34:23.32)
Exactly. Yeah. Buying old school routes and really kind of flipping them like a house with modern micro markets charging, with different products and what would fit in a vending machine, like more of the unorthodox, you know, toilet paper and tide pods and things that wouldn't fit in a traditional vending machine. I mean, we'll sell $35 bottles of shampoo in these micro markets. So just kind of, go and add it in a different way.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (34:49.857)
Yeah, and then with the aging population, there's gotta be more and more of these things popping up. So there should be more opportunity for people to get involved or for people like yourself to just snag everything, right?
 
Mike (35:01.102)
Yeah, I think there's no chance I could snag everything, not even just in this town alone that I'm currently in. I mean, machines are getting cheaper, the technology is getting way better with AI. And nowadays, it's not what fits in a vending machine motor. It's okay, what's shelf space? if it's a bottle of shampoo or a glass Coke, it doesn't matter because it's not just getting thrown down the chute of a traditional machine.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (35:05.387)
Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (35:27.521)
Makes sense, makes sense. Last, how are you planning on making your next million dollars?
 
Mike (35:34.3)
I think probably with AI, we're doing a lot of interesting stuff with helping people scale their, their vending routes. that is applicable to any, small business. And so I'm really intrigued. Just every time I go down a rabbit hole with some new AI tool, I feel like there's another better one that just came right behind it. So I just think it's kind of that time where you can really get ahead by just learning.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (36:06.209)
Yeah, totally makes sense. mean people that are not paying attention to AI whether it's simply using chat GPT instead of Google search are getting left behind quickly because it's just advancing so fast. I can't even imagine what this world's gonna look like five years from now the way that things are moving.
 
Mike (36:23.132)
It's crazy. Three years ago when I was working for a tech company selling software into the government, I would have to work with three secretaries to schedule a meeting with the general to sell their software. Now my EA is literally an AI bot and everyone that's scheduling time on my calendar, they don't even know they're talking to a non-human, which is pretty
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (36:43.479)
Yeah, 100%. We're gonna, I predicted within five years, everybody's gonna have a humanoid robot in their home with AI instilled and they're gonna be doing physical things for us at our homes. Yeah. Yep. Yep. 100%. Awesome, All right, moving on to the next one.
 
Mike (36:50.181)
Yeah!
 
Mike (36:57.917)
I hope so. I hope they can go to Costco get all our groceries do our do our laundry The dishes
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (37:11.501)
You're clearly in the top 1 % of what you do, Mike. What is it about you that separates you from the rest of the field?
 
Mike (37:19.056)
Ooh, that's a good question, Seth. I think it's just discipline, know, discipline and focus. One of the hardest things is being able to say no with the things that don't align. And when I was growing up, I had a quote that has really stuck with me. That's like, it's better to be respected than liked. And I think that really resonates. Like naturally as a human, you want to be liked and help people, but the 1 % are really good at saying no.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (37:47.649)
Yeah, I love that man. That's a great answer. Kind of building on that, what do you think the number one attribute is that makes a successful entrepreneur?
 
Mike (37:57.468)
probably focus. Yeah. Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (37:59.212)
Yeah, focus. Yep. The one thing, right? The one thing.
 
Mike (38:04.186)
Yep. That's why you come back to like the most successful entrepreneurs. They always niche down and they niche down because they just, got hyper-focused. Like this is kind of why for me, you know, I started this passive Mr. Passive on social media before I even got into Vendi. Well, now everyone's like, well, how passive is Vendi? And well, it's like, what's really interesting is I was posting all these different, what I thought passive income streams in the time, but everyone, 95 % of the questions I got about
 
Airbnbs are all my different investments was about bending. So I just niche down on, on bending and I just looked back on that and I was like, it really forced me to focus.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (38:43.263)
Awesome, awesome. What's one thing someone could do today to get 1 % closer to success in the vending machine business if they are really interested in learning more?
 
Mike (38:53.892)
tap into your connections and find a location that has high foot traffic, whether that's a friend that works at an urgent care, a sister that lives at an apartment. You know, you take your kid to that gymnastics studio that has a ton of foot traffic between 4 PM and 8 PM. Like all those locations are prime locations to put one of these modern smart machines in. so, tapping into your connections, well, you know,
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (39:24.567)
Love that man. Awesome. All right, Mike, I appreciate it, brother. We'll to meet in person sometime,
 
Mike (39:30.574)
I would love to. Where are you based, Seth?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (39:31.789)
I'm in San Diego, where you at?
 
Mike (39:34.78)
I am in Eugene. Yeah, Oregon. I'll come down your way though.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (39:37.39)
Cool We're planning on doing yeah, we're planning on doing so me and my wife we have a Sprinter van and Last May we did we did going back to the flexibility piece, right? We did 32 days in the van up through Wyoming Montana and then into like Into Canada and they're like Banff and Jasper and all the way up to Jasper and then we circled back on the west coast Through Vancouver and then down back to San Diego Yeah
 
Mike (40:05.52)
What?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (40:06.829)
Pretty wild, pretty awesome. And the reason I brought that up is this year we're gonna do shorter trip. We're probably gonna do two, maybe three weeks at the most, but we're gonna do kind of the Pacific Northwest. So Oregon, Washington, and Vancouver and all those parks and stuff up there.
 
Mike (40:17.254)
Yeah.
 
Mike (40:21.744)
Yeah, you definitely have a, have you been to Bend before? Bend is like my, that whole area, Central Oregon is, and even Idaho, like all those kind of, yeah. That's awesome. Please let me know when you're up this way. I mean, I'll come meet you wherever. That'd be amazing. Absolutely. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (40:24.641)
Yeah, yeah I have.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (40:38.861)
Sure man grab a coffee or beer. I appreciate it. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah all right brother great to meet you and I will send the information on when this is gonna get released and give you you materials and all that stuff so we can collaborate on social media
 
Mike (40:51.964)
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Is a lot of your audience, like passive investors?
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (40:58.593)
So most of that, so now I'm rebranding. I rebranded because I'm gonna be speaking more towards like active entrepreneurs, Active entrepreneurs, people raising capital, that sort of thing. Whereas before it was based on passive investors and people really focused on attorneys. So I'm an attorney and I was raising capital from attorneys for my real estate deals. Now I'm really more into selling shovels. I'm scaling my law firm. I'm chief legal officer for Tribest, which is, we've got a fund to fund.
 
Mike (41:20.262)
Mm-hmm.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (41:28.085)
legal product there as well. So we're really trying to bring in active, active entrepreneurs and people raising capital.
 
Mike (41:29.777)
Yeah.
 
Mike (41:36.572)
Okay, because I got that, I was just thinking through when we talking about that oil development project, that could be a good, the guy that runs that fund could be a good interview for you. Just thinking through your audience, because he's always looking for investors into his fund and like these oil lubs are just crushing it.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (41:49.901)
Cool. Yeah.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (41:58.464)
Yeah, cool. Who is it? Just, I don't know if I know him or not.
 
Mike (42:02.183)
Um, Robert Durkey, he's out of Florida. has, his problem is he's sitting on a gold mine that has no, like he's old school, doesn't know social media, any of that. So that's why I think he'd be perfect for you. Cause I think you could help him and he could definitely help you with some kickback. Yeah. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully we meet soon. Okay. See you Seth. Bye.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (42:05.645)
I don't think I know. I don't think I know.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (42:13.889)
Yeah. Gotcha.
 
Seth Bradley, Esq. (42:20.705)
Cool, okay, sounds good man. Yeah, I appreciate the introduction.
 
Yeah, all right brother. Talk soon. See ya.
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
Seth Bradley’s Links:
https://x.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
www.facebook.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.threads.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.instagram.com/sethbradleyesq/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbradleyesq/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en
Mike Hoffman’s Links:
https://www.instagram.com/mikehoffmannofficial/
https://x.com/mrpassive_?lang=en
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikedhoffmann/
https://www.tiktok.com/@mr.passive

RTBL 04 | The Hidden Cost of "Family & Friends" Capital and How to Avoid It with Chris Salerno

Title: The Hidden Cost of "Family & Friends" Capital and How to Avoid It with Chris Salerno
In this episode, host Chris Salerno and Seth Bradley, an experienced SEC attorney with a diverse and inspiring background. Seth Bradley shares his unique journey from starting out as a nightclub promoter to becoming a successful attorney specializing in securities law. The conversation dives deep into Seth Bradley’s personal story, exploring how his upbringing in West Virginia shaped his views on success, risk-taking, and accountability.
Seth Bradley emphasizes the importance of hard work, resilience, and refusing to make excuses, reinforcing his belief that anyone can achieve success regardless of their starting point in life. Together, Chris Salerno and Seth Bradley discuss the realities of today’s U.S. economic climate, particularly in California, and the evolving landscape of real estate investing under changing securities regulations. They also share valuable insights on how entrepreneurs should approach risk and adapt to shifting market conditions.
The dialogue transitions into a discussion of fitness and balance, as Seth Bradley talks about how he and his wife manage their Burn Boot Camp franchises while navigating the challenges brought on by the COVID-19 pandemic. As the conversation concludes, Seth Bradley reflects on the changing dynamics of real estate, the critical importance of investor communication, and the need for ongoing education in uncertain economic times.
Links to listen and subscribe:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fund-it-scale-it-close-it-unlocking-real-estate-success/id1760606484?i=1000680833837
Links to watch and subscribe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR8RiGLlZMA&t=2732s
Bullet Point Highlights:
Seth’s Early Journey: Seth was adopted from South Korea and raised in rural West Virginia, leading to his realization of hard work and accountability.
Nightlife Promotions: Before becoming an attorney, Seth thrived as a nightclub promoter in Los Angeles, reinforcing his skills in sales and networking.
Law School Transition: After dropping out of medical school, Seth shifted focus from medicine to business and law, finding success in both fields.
Importance of SEC Compliance: The conversation highlights common mistakes investors make regarding securities regulations and emphasizes how crucial proper legal guidance is in real estate.
Pandemic Pivot: Seth and his wife managed to keep their fitness business afloat during COVID-19 by pivoting to online workouts, showcasing resilience and adaptability.
Investor Communication: Both host and guest stress the significance of maintaining clear and consistent communication with investors, particularly in a volatile economic climate.
Future of Real Estate: Discussion around California’s real estate laws, particularly the push for accessory dwelling units (ADUs), presents new opportunities for investment.
Transcript:
it's something there you can make an excuse about and that's the issue about today's society is that everyone wants excuses we mentally uh wired to have negativity in our life I actually started promoting for nightclubs you were a promoter I was a promoter for nightclub life is The Hunger Games business is The Hunger Games the space that you and I are in private Equity it's the Hunger Games my knowledge number one thing SEC really gets you on as misrepresentation welcome to the crystalo show your goto for real estate
 
business health Health and Family Insight I'm Chris CNO CEO of QC Capital each episode we explore the latest trends and expert advice from industry leaders whether you're an investor entrepreneur or seeking balance this show provides an inspiration you need join us in elevate your game on the Chris alno show welcome to the chriso show I'm your host Chris alno very excited to have a friend of mine we've known each other for what five six years now think so man time flies uh when you're having fun uh Seth on here SEC
 
attorney doing a bunch of things excited to have him on here a wealth of knowledge Seth thanks so much for joining us dude appreciate you having me on appreciate you reaching out and uh inviting me over for the show most definitely and I'm glad it happened when it did because you're in town you're you're you live out in the beautiful I would say you guys have great weather and great In-N-Out Burger your tax and politics suck but California which is beautiful weather out there you happen to be in Charlotte for Fitness which
 
we'll touch on here in a second um but I'm glad we were able to make this work absolutely man yeah good timing really good so let's let's give everyone a little background about yourself all the way from you know childhood you know talk to us about that sure man yeah and I think it helps build the story U I'm adopted so I was born in South Korea and adopted a 3 months old and then by two wonderful people in West Virginia rural West Virginia that's different so you know I'm the only Asian in inal West
 
Virginia yeah so I went to high school with like 18800 kids country country Moon shiners yes for sure for sure good people I love West Virginia love it I love Snowshoe Snowshoe is really good great underrated best best on the East Co or best close to North Carolina I would say unless you get way up North but yeah North Carolina you know anything close snow Sho is where it's at yeah yeah I love it but uh yeah man grew up in Royal West Virginia so wasn't really exposed to entrepreneurship or owning real estate or anything like that
 
my parents are both Blue Collar uh my dad was a is a coal miner was a Miner is retired now my mom is a grade school teacher so you know I didn't come from are they still in West Virginia yes they are okay they're frequent trips back there you go there you go yeah so wasn't exposed to that stuff so it was all about kind of getting the best job that you could possibly get right talk talk to us about that mentality you were young what age did you come over to us three months three oh three months month
 
so you didn't even spend time in in South Korea you don't even know of not at all are you curious now you know with you being adopted anything anything about you know where you came from anything like that actually not man you know I I I think a lot of uh adoptees struggle with that yeah um I actually joined a Facebook group one time like with Korean adops and there's like thousands of them in there and I was thinking I'm going to gain some insight from this and but it was like No And it was a lot of uh you know to be blunt a
 
lot of whining in my mind a lot of crying right I'm about accountability and just going out there and getting it done and you know it's just about you know a lot of I say this all the time you are you can't control the cards you are dealt you can only control how you deal them sure you know you unfor you know unfortunately you it's a great thing it's not unfortunate it's fortunately you were adopted at three months you couldn't control that you couldn't control being born in South Korea and being adopted but you have to
 
control the cards you were dealt and you've done a phenomenal job you're a badass attorney you know phenomenal job with the cards you were dealt um but I can definitely see being in those type of groups you're going to get a lot of whining and moaning yeah I mean I I think it's you know it's a couple it's it's a couple things right I mean some people have a reason to to quote unquote whine and mo right you know they're they're dealt a bad hand but again like you said you've got to you've got to
 
play the cards you're dealt right and do the best you can with it and I think that if you are adopted it's easy to go and blame it on that it's it's an easy crutch to lean it's an excuse it's it's something there you can make an excuse about and and and that's the issue about today's society is that everyone wants excuses where mentally uh wired to have negativity in our life and so they're going to make an excuse oh I'm not successful because of this because of this that's a lie you are highly
 
successful and attorney a beautiful wife doing great things in business and in the real estate industry so you are proof that you can get it done you just have to work hard yeah you just have to work hard you can't blame shift I like to call it you can't blame it on you know the cards you were dealt or you know the things that uh may have happened to you or the situations you're in you've got to just move forward and do the best that you can so dad was a coal miner y mom was a a school teacher what made you want to say hey I'm G to
 
go into law school and be an attorney yeah it it was a little bit uh a little bit more of a story behind that first of all I went into uh medicine so I wanted to be a doctor all right um well I wouldn't say I wanted to be a doctor it was more like what's the best job that I can get with the mindset that I had my mindset was you know W2 worker type of mindset right like not entrepreneurial not don't take risk and it was and I you know academically it was pretty easy for me so it was just okay what's the best
 
job you can get is probably being a doctor right like that's kind of the highest calling um and I actually went to med school for a year and a half really yeah and then I dropped out halfway through my second year I literally just got up in the middle of class walked out and said I've I've had it I oh my goodness so I went Premed biology yeah I went Premed biology chemistry and biology whoop my butt so I said okay I'm going to business entrepreneurship switch business entrepreneurship and I said maybe it
 
wasn't chemistry and biology it was just College in general so I dropped out of college um but you so you got to med school and you're like okay I'm done with this Y and then what yep um honestly that was a turning point in my life I didn't know what I wanted to do right like I committed a a large portion of my life to you know schooling schooling taking the MCAT getting into med school finishing that's not easy either Med school's hard very hard very hard but I've always had an interest in business and real estate just kind of in
 
the background like I just always had an interest in it um didn't really know how to act on it at the time um so I actually just started enrolling in business classes like immediately just and ended up getting a minor in business for the rest of that year so I I in undergrad classes um and then I started up my MBA actually the following year so got my MBA and then I decided to take it the next step and go ahead and get my law degree because I was still in that same mindset it was like you know this
 
isn't enough I didn't really know anything about starting a business or anything like that and I just felt like I hadn't done enough so I went ahead and went to went to law school and at that point I did decide I was like look I'm going to I'm going to finish this whether it's the right thing or not um and I was very successful at it I finished towards the top of my class dedicated you know the time and effort it needed um and did really well so love that love that and so getting in what made you want to move out to California
 
number one on a win man so dropped out of med school kind of took those business classes just trying to figure out what I wanted to to do next on the other side of the world I'm in West Virginia still at this point yeah in West Virginia trying to figure it out and I just knew I needed to get out of there I needed to see more I needed to get out of West Virginia you know it was it was a tough conversation to have right like all my family and friends are there um you know I just dropped out of medical school so now they're like what
 
the hell is this kid doing you know what I mean like dropping out of med school but they've always been supportive always been supportive always been supportive they never like pushed me into medicine or anything like that and then when I dropped out you know they're still staying supportive but I'm sure in the background they're thinking what the hell are you doing uhoh yeah and then I just decided to up and leave and move to Los Angeles out of nowhere unbelievable unbelievable so you moved out to Los
 
Angeles yep how was that well I partied for a little bit yeah for a little bit they they know how to party out yeah for a little bit I didn't know what I was going to do I was enrolled um getting my NBA at the time uh mostly online um at Arizona State um so I kept the education going but at the same time I'm in La I'm in a new city I actually started promoting for nightclubs you were a promoter I was a promoter for nightclub for a little over a year in Los Angeles um before I decided hey I got to get my
 
[ __ ] together well I mean you'll definitely meet a lot of women doing that for sure you get paid basically per head on how many women you bring in the club oh yeah you've got a bottle or two waiting for you every single night y it's actually a pretty nice little lifestyle for somebody in their 20s oh yeah most I I believe it if you want you know if you want to get some experience get out there it's best you can meet a lot of women too yeah and it's a good like uh it's kind of a sales experience
 
be honest with you you're just for you're like hey I'm getting paid $10 ahead to bring beautiful women to this club I got to go out there and just talk to everybody literally just going out there talking hey you got this come to this club tonight we've got bottles all this kind of stuff and you know wow unbelievable unbelievable so from there you were like okay I got to get my [ __ ] together yeah had to get my [ __ ] together obviously you know I'm still getting educated in back getting my NBA
 
still kind of keeping the education going oh yeah um but I decided hey I'm going to go to law school so started applying to law schools um ended up getting accepted to a number of ones and I I narrowed it down to USD in San Diego because I wanted to stay in Southern California because I loved it um but I knew I didn't want to be in La so got out of La went down to San Diego because I had visited there a couple times and I just loved it it's just more of a laid-back attitude people were a lot more genuine just a place that I could
 
see s down at compared to La it's just you know it it it's kind of doggy dog there most oh it is it's a hunger life is The Hunger Games business is The Hunger Games the space that you are you and I are in private Equity it's the Hunger Games yeah you know and and you have to have that mentality you have to be able to survive yeah at the end of the day so from there you're like okay law school it is yep and then you get into law school well in law school or but even prior to that there's so many
 
different levels of law you can practice yeah what made you you know pick SEC and prior to that did you have any other interest in different type of law yeah I mean generally speaking I want I knew I wanted to get into transactional law I didn't want to be a litigator that's for sure um I was interested in business interested in doing deals those sorts of things so I started out actually at a at a pretty big Law Firm step tone Johnson and ended up doing both real estate and corporate I think that's when we first
 
met it might have been yeah yeah when when you were cuz they were out what in San Diego or no actually I moved back to West Virginia for that job oh did you okay maybe maybe you maybe you were just finishing there when we met yeah well actually I think we met when I was in probably when I was in Charlotte because I moved to Charlotte for another big Law Firm I think so but anyways yeah so I started kind of more general transactional practice with real estate and corporate and then as I kind of got
 
more mature and more experienced I started focusing more on the security side nice nice do you you enjoy security side for sure for sure the security side is it it feels a lot more sophisticated um I like the people that I work with in that field a little bit more um but I still have a passion for Real Estate like I still love real estate so even though I'm a Securities attorney it's largely focused on real estate yeah so let's talk about that you know for those individuals that may not know what a
 
security is most will know what a security is let's talk about that and let's talk about you know the the day-to-day what does a Security attorneys really look like sure sure I mean the easy way to put it for a security because because people kind of miss understand it but if you have passive investors involved at all anywhere anywhere any even if it's one you probably even if it's an LLC yeah you're probably dealing with a security and you're dealing with the SEC regulations and you need a Securities
 
attorney to advise you because there are lots of things to navigate that you're probably not aware of and that your real estate attorney probably doesn't have the knowledge or know how to to deal with mostely and I see that mistake being made quite a bit oh yeah no I I see that on social media all the time for sure all the time on social media and it comes down to even with words you say like you have to be very very careful you're not misleading whatsoever what do you find uh the most common maybe mistake syndicators or fund
 
managers do in the syndication world yeah I mean I think the most common mistake is just not even realizing that they're under the Securities regime right like they're just like oh well I'm just raising some you know I'm getting some investors from family friends and they think because it's family and friends maybe that it's okay but it's not it doesn't it doesn't matter who they are it doesn't matter if it's your your family or friends or you know stranger off the streets you're dealing with Securities yeah and that and you
 
have to deal with those Securities regulations to come along with it so I I think just not knowing yeah that or maybe kind of turning a blind cheek to it is is more like it I think people nowadays have a pretty good idea of because it is kind of out there now right everyone's on social media they're all talking about it the biggest thing too is is you don't want to not know and you don't want to turn that cheek because um something to know is that SEC has unlimited money and they will milk you dry so you might as well spend the
 
money ahead of time find you a good SEC attorney like Seth you know to make sure that they don't milk you dry because they will milk you dry and they'll throw you in a little white little 4x6 cell and it's not going to be fun if you didn't know they can print money yeah so so if you're you're going up against someone who can print money and you necessarily can't print like they can print exactly you know so you got to be careful and that's not to mention the state Commissioners too so you've got the SEC to deal with as
 
well as the state Securities commissioner which people don't people don't realize that there's a federal and a state level too and and it's super important to understand what state you're doing business in and what state your investors are coming from and and super important to understand at a state and federal level yeah yeah and it's a you know and if something happens it's a full-blown investigation I mean it's just like a subpoena or you maybe you will get subpoenaed uh but they're asking for everything you they're asking
 
for texts they're asking for emails asking for phone logs they're asking and give it give it to them like don't even because if you don't they're going to get it they're going to find it yeah I mean they're just going to subpoena you on it and the judge is going to make you do it or they'll throw you in jail so no matter what give it to them and then address every single situation you know or issue that they bring up that I I think it's it's super important we just talked about this on the other podcast
 
is be transparent yeah you know be transparent because if not they're again they have unlimited Capital absolutely you know they're going to come and get you no matter what and and if and if being transparent makes you nervous then maybe think about the way you're doing business right oh yeah I mean you should be able to be transparent and and just like I said on the other podcast big investor that we had or a big investor that we interviewed on the other podcast and I said you know during 2023 as you
 
know uh interest rates spiked you know little bit yeah just a little bit and a lot of syndicators were not transparent a lot of them went ghost a lot of them were let like screw this I'm done and we double down we went from monthly communication to bi-weekly communication which is a lot more on our team but we did it to overc communicate we didn't have to cuz our SEC doc said just once a month we could have just stick it once a month but we decided to double down yeah and and that right there overc
 
communicating saying hey this is what's going on it's out of our control but this is what we're doing to make sure we can control this you know I think is super important when you're a syndicator fund manager you name it when you're dealing and having investors involved 100% man 100% And you you are able to control the narrative that way too right like if the the past investors is sitting there and they're reading the headlines and they're seeing the interest rate Spike and they're hearing about multifam going down the tubes and
 
all this stuff and that's not necessarily true not all those things are true it could be Market specific deal specific those things but if you're not in constant communication with them letting them know hey this is what's going on with this deal maybe this deal is going great maybe this one's not going as well well here's what we're doing to fix it it it goes a long ways 100% their trust you're going to have an upset investor you know you are if you have you know 20 50 100 investors one's going to be upset and if you ever got
 
audited you can all you can go back and say look at all of our communication right like read through all of our communication we were transparent about everything they're going to look back and be like okay it's this a pissed off investor yeah you for sure for sure and it's super like communication is the biggest uh I think thing that is lost in% capital and also you know being being transparent with the communication because number one from my knowledge number one thing SEC really gets you on is misrepresentation absolutely you know
 
and if you're not being transparent on it with everything on there boom it it will be a very ugly day for you for sure be transparent you know obviously the things that you leave out as well like if there are key material things that you're leaving out and then you've you've disclosed all these things let's say down the line to the SEC or State commissioner like what in the world this doesn't sound like you're representing this deal like it really was at this time and maybe they're going back and
 
looking at your records looking your financial statements and seeing how that deal was going it wasn't going great it was going terrible Y and you're saying that everything is great well um that's not being transparent right you know you're not communicating that with the investors right yeah no I think that's super important H you know what have you seen you know over 2023 dealing with you know Securities talking with other fund managers things like that what have you seen you know during last year with
 
interest rate hikes man it it there was a little bit of blood in streets right you know a lot of these deals um that had shortterm loans that had um you know the the variable loan rates um struggled yeah a lot of people that caps they didn't get rate Caps or the or the cap expired yeah or their cap expired and they didn't have enough money in reserves to buy an extension on the cap you know and and that was huge that was huge thinkk one of our deals uh had 202 for or excuse me uh 2024 expiration and
 
we bought uh end or beginning of 2023 end of 2022 rate cap to Extended 2025 and I'm so glad we did it yeah you know it was perfect timing because that same rate cap would have been a million and we only spent like 400,000 yeah yeah for sure yeah so you're seeing a little bit of blood in the streets um you know I think right now what's happening banks are allowing for some uh leniency with their loans they don't they don't want to have the property absolutely and it looks it looks terrible if they do have
 
the property on their balance sheet plus I think they the this go around cuz oh0 wait the first thing they said is we're going to foreclose on everyone we're taking everyone's property then they realize well [ __ ] I got a ton of property and no one wants to buy it yeah you know so I think they've learned their lesson and now they are like okay we don't want to forclosed because no one's going to buy it and if they do buy it we're still going to take a huge loss so let's go ahead and see what we can do
 
to work things out you know if the property's really really not bad let's see what we can do to work things out because it will rebound it's coming back back around yeah but I do think you know we're kicking the can down the road they're giving extensions those sorts of things and we're all banking that the interest rates are going to go down at some point right so we're hoping for that um I think that they will I think we're going to see one before the election yeah it I think we're going to see a quarter point before the election
 
I think I think some politics have gotten into drone Pal's head no way yeah I know right no way couldn't I I think they I think they had a nice little cigar dinner or something and and I think they got in his head so I think you'll see one before the election of this year I agree I agree yeah you know it's it's going to be a wild election too not wanting to dive deep into politics but it's definitely going to be a wild one uh talk to us about you know the the California lifestyle what are you what are you doing right now you you
 
also your wife beautiful wife has a great business you guys are running that's why you're here in Charlotte talk to us a little bit about that and why you guys got into that too yeah so we uh started uh we bought two burn boot camp franchises so uh my wife luckily runs those helped her get them off the ground and now she's crushing it so letting her run with those and uh they're going really really well um lifestyle in California you can't beat it man I mean San Diego is unbelievable oh it's beautiful down there the weather
 
everything kind of like how you said earlier in the show I mean if you if you can afford to live there one because it is really expensive oh I know and if you can deal with the politics then there's no better place in the United States for sure really there's not you know I just wish they had better politics over there um but yeah the weather out there is so beautiful you really can't beat it you can't beat it you know let's talk about health because you guys own those burn boot camps they're huge in Charlotte um
 
their headquarters here in Charlotte that's where it was founded um and tell us a little bit about what burn boot camp is and then also I'm going to want you to touch on like how are you optimizing your health to to be the phenomenal husband that you are to operate you know businesses and getting involved in real estate talk to us about that sure man yeah burn boot camp it's a boutique Fitness franchise um you know it's it's Boot Camp style workouts workouts the same um it's incredible and and it's focused on women it's focused
 
on empowering inspiring so if you're a single man you should go absolutely absolutely I will say I've been taking up hot yoga lately Hot Yoga is good and for those single men out there go to hot yoga just saying there we go yeah Gym's not a bad place to pick up women yeah plus the great thing too is that there's no filters you can't have filters at the gym and more than likely they're not going there with makeup on so it's it's a good place to filter out women you want there you go a little different than the apps right yeah I
 
know so so it's geared more towards women it is geared towards more towards women um but it I work out there every day I mean that's where I work out now like that's that's what I do I love the total body workouts I love the total body workouts you go in like an orange theory you go in one hour boom you're done you're going about your day exactly hour in and out of there and for guys like us that have a million things to do like it's unbeatable and I want somebody telling me what to do I was just going
 
to say that I don't want and I I work out by myself now and it's so much easier showing up tell me to shut up go do this do that get it done boom okay I'm all about my day you know tell me what to do right just tell me what to do I I will I will tell you I've been to the gym and there's been times I've had business on my mind that I'm like wait okay so I'm at the gym what do I need to do like you're sitting like a 24-hour fitness or or yeah something like I work out at lifetime I live right behind it
 
and I walk in there sometimes because of my long days and I'm like [ __ ] what do I want to do today like I because my mind is business business business it's so much easier showing up having someone said hey we got all these set workouts you're going to knock these out and be done they make they make you focus on the workout at that point instead of you know business or whatever listen to a podcast or something what got you guys interested in opening up one of those I hope you're enjoying today's episode
 
just a quick reminder to make sure you never miss an episode stay connected with us by following us on social media platforms Instagram Twitter threads Tik Tok at Chris saloor and don't forget to subscribe to YouTube to catch the video versions of our episode you'll get exclusive content behindth scenes footage and much more head over to YouTube chrisoro now and hit the Subscribe button stay tuned because we've got more great content coming right after this actually cuz my wife worked out at one
 
here in Charlotte really so she was working out at one she was working out at one here in Charlotte and then we moved back to the West Coast cuz I took a job here in Charlotte for a little bit then we moved back to the West Coast and I was look looking to start a business I was looking for something recession resistant outside of real estates I was already investing in real estate but looking for a business outside of real estate I looked at liquor stores I looked at laundromats um and then she
 
turned me on to burn boot camp which is not recession resistance let's put it that way but at the same time they're really good salesman look like a great business model turned out to be awesome although oh most definitely yeah circumstances weren't great we opened two weeks before Co hit oo but talk to us about that you know opening a and we all know California they they lock down like oh yeah they lock down you can't even go get your mail out of your house um talk to us about that opening up a
 
business right before covid and being in California where you know they were basically Nazis out there yeah for sure I mean we opened up two weeks in um and we didn't have any paying members because we were all on uh they were all on like a free membership TR one yeah so then we had to shut it down we had to move inside we had to move outside we did online workouts every single day uh pivoted yeah we pivoted we did whatever we had to do to keep the lights on wow um so literally our lead trainer and
 
business partner was in our apartment leading online workouts and me and my wife Alison are in the background like like a yeah like a music workout video Yeah in the backgound but it did keep us in shape during Co cuz we worked out every single day because we had to make those videos you had to yeah but it was I mean it was ridiculous out in California man they shut down the beaches they shut down the water you weren't allowed to be in in the ocean what you weren't allowed to be in the ocean cuz they said it got transmitted
 
through the water at one point so are you serious so they kicked the Surfers out of the water and you kick the Surfers out of the water in San Diego you're you got some pissed off people you got a big problem but there are like all these you know Instagram videos the cops chasing Surfers down the beach and the guy just dropping his surfboard and running it was it transmitted through the water yeah insane but that's new heard that inside outside online inside outside eventually we we blacked out our
 
windows so you couldn't see in it because we got we got actually attacked by U an Instagram person that ended up going viral because he said hey you're the reason that we're the the disease is spreading because of businesses like yours and they filmed us from the outside into the windows and it went viral no way and it went viral and then finally we we ended up blacking out the windows and just stayed open cuz there's at that point it was like either Do Your Own Thing yeah and stay open oh yeah or
 
we're going out of business yeah you got to shut shop and this is a venture you just opened up no one knew Co is coming and all a sudden Co boom co comes and wow so you bled out the windows and you said hey we're just going to do it it's like a Speak Easy now yeah you guys want to work out we called it that at one point really speak easy easy workout like underground workouts underground haircuts there all kinds of that stuff going on it was insane that's W if you just have to think about that that's
 
just wild yeah like you know just for your basic necessities to stay in shape and things like that turns out if you got sunshine and you worked out you were a little bit more immune to the disease oh really yeah interesting interesting wow and you weren't locked in doors and you weren't allowed to work out yeah well problems wow I think we can go on a rabbit hole about that damn I'm not a big fan of I will say I do think there's another one going to be coming you know I think there's another pandemic that
 
will be coming um because of what happened with the first one so let's see uh let's just see what happens let's see if we handle it better this time uh we shall see it depends on whose's President I I think that's that's true yeah um definitely depends on them so you guys now you know past covid everyone's now out and about in California everything's been lifted and now those are up and running are those are the only ones really on the west coast right or um I think there are let's see two four five I think there's
 
six in California right now six now yeah cuz like you said it was based in Charlotte mainly east coast yeah yeah I think there's about 400 locations open now very cool um actually I think they're approaching 500 locations now yeah um so it's expanding pretty quickly at this point you know Fitness franchises have have rebounded completely from Co at this point oh my God yeah I think I think the fitness industry and I'm seeing it more and more people are taking it a lot more serious yeah they're they're watching what they
 
eat and I I said this multiple times with my son he's four and a half uh he watches what um or I make sure whatever I give him I watch very closely goldfish now and if you look and I swear this is brand new if you look at any ingredients now it says bio oh what is what's it say bio biograde or bio bio bioengineered food so it says it's been bioengineered the food that's been in there yeah so if you look go next time you go to the grocery store look at the ingredients and now it says it in bold you can pick up some gold Vision it says
 
bioengineered chemicals hm in the food interesting it's wild even her Pedialite had it said bioengineered chemicals now I swear that just popped up you know in one of these crazy bills cuz I've never ever seen it say bioengineered food on there uh and I steer very far away from it I'm big on those factors Factor meals now okay I have you heard of those I have y so I get those now once a week it's like 141 bucks uh lunch and dinner CU I don't eat breakfast so lunch and dinner 141 bucks and I'm thinking in my
 
head well if you and I went out to dinner it'd be about a 100 bucks right now so I get uh 14 meals per week lunch and dinner for 141 bucks I'm like I can't beat that yeah like that's good I throw them in the microwave 2 minutes boom done yeah we do pre-made meals all the time but we switch like we've done Factor before bur boot Camp's actually coming out with some in the fall we we got the test drive and they're actually pretty delicious cuz yeah we're pretty picky about these types of meals you
 
have to be but they're actually really good are they so they're coming out they're coming out with their own branding yep oo that'll be exciting and that is that's not just for boot camp people that's for everyone yeah you can just get on the app and order them this fall I believe really oh I'm going to have to switch it up and try man they're good but especially with pring these days it makes sense plus how busy you and I are yeah I mean so are you meal prepping or are you using these type of things my wife does some meal prepping
 
on Sunday got to love her yeah that's basically it every once in a while I volunteer to grill out but man it's it's it's a Time suck right like it to feed yourself at home like it sounds even going out you know for a lunch meeting it's like two hours like I have to block two hours off on my day for a lunch meeting yeah yeah I mean trying to cook an individual meal every single night let alone like lunch as well and even and then you got to clean all that Tak in just takes so much time we we don't
 
have time for it no I I I don't either that's why I start a factor where I throw it in 2 minutes boom I eat it and I'm done and I'm like well I threw it away boom no cleaning done I love it I love it so you guys are doing great things with the bur boot camp out there what do you what are you seeing uh let's go back to the real estate market what are you seeing in the near future I know we talk about interest rates lowering you know what are you seeing what are you doing right now in the real estate
 
market as well yeah um currently a fund manager for $20 million fund it's an Adu Fund in California so we're doing basically in California just like everything else difficult to do anything right like the government's got their handed and everything oh my God so very difficult to get any kind of construction done off the ground it's mind bogling we're buying a car wash and Cape car right now and it's finished yeah well they came out for the co they don't like the garage doors and so now we have to order new or the the seller
 
we're buying it from the seller seller has to now order new garage doors it won't be here till end of October and I'm like like seriously the garage doors will only be down between 9:00 at night and and 7 in the morning like it's middle the night no one's going to even look at them yeah like and you want these fancy garage like come on really yeah you know so and I can't imagine out in California yeah and if you get the coastal commission involved it takes literally years and years to do any so
 
anyways the reason I brought that up is because the adus accessory dwelling units they actually have a bill in California that they past and they basically just FastTrack those types of developments so if you want to add they they view it as a a solution to housing so the lack of housing yeah um so they let you build on uh turn your single family property into a duplex or even build duplex on the on the property if you have a big enough lot um so you can turn one units into four and rent the back out or rent them all out yep
 
exactly so it's a it's a quick way to get the construction approved get it done I don't know how long this wind is going to be open so you guys taking advantage so we're taking advantage of it right now love that love that and is your main focus down there in that San Diego Market um it's actually Riverside County okay yeah where and where I'm Riverside county is is East just East adjacent of Los Angeles County okay right so a little cheaper housing so it makes a little bit more sense when you get closer to the coast it stops making
 
a lot of sense you got to go for some more creative Place cheaper like 5 million probably yeah yeah yeah just a little $5 million 5 million um but but cheaper housing there so you guys are finding opportunity now is that bill all for California where you can for all California and then the local um you know counties and municipalities can kind of change that and you they can't make it any more restrictive but they can make it even less restrictive okay good and so are you uh are you guys doing long-term rentals there are you
 
doing short-term like airbnbs um semi longterm right so we're putting in a 10-year fund so you know we're getting we're buying the property we're renovating it putting ad used on the properties and then renting them for a few years and then unloading them towards the back end of the the fund I love love that and with these you're all buying them in the same area yeah yeah Riverside County generally I mean it's you know spread across how are you guys finding good deals in this market you know it's so hard multif family no you
 
name it any any type of real estate there's always a huge disc connect between a seller and a buyer how are you guys finding good deals right now uh my business partners man like I you know I'm handling legal I'm working with some Capital I'm I'm advising on on raising Capital those sorts of things um but my business partners are real estate brokers and they' been doing uh this type of thing identifying properties that are perfect for adus um for a number of years at this point so they're they're the main source they they get
 
first look I love I love that how how is it finding you know great business partners you know it's just like a marriage you you got to test it out you got to see how it is because a Business Partnership is like a marriage how is it you know and how did you guys link up yeah um networking event so I met I met these bus business partners actually at a wealth without Wall Street event that I was speaking at nice yeah yeah so I met them hit it off with them I think the first I've been in Good and Bad
 
Business Partnership relationships yeah I I think you you have to go through bad ones you do because if if you don't go through bad ones you don't know what what can happen to you and I would rather go through bad ones early on to make sure that when if we went into business we have the right contract the right verbage all of that in place because at the end of the day again just like if you would get married you're signing a contract to your wife you know in most circumstances I highly recommend
 
sign a prup I'm not a big fan I don't believe in marriage uh but a Business Partnership is a marriage yeah you know it is it is and building off of that like you have to like the person I think that you're going into oh 100% you have to hang out with them like you you have to be very cold cordial you know talk you guys have to like the same things if you just like a relationship if you guys don't like the same things if you don't like if one party likes working out the other one doesn't other one doesn't eat
 
healthy the other one eats healthy like it's just not going to work out it's not not not a long-term Business Partnership right like it can't just be transaction maybe shortterm really quick turnaround time but if it's going to be a long-term Business Partnership you got to like that person you generally like him you're like hey I I like this dude I'll go have a beer with him this is great this is I'll travel with him my business partner we travel around the world together we hang out together we go to
 
the same events together we like the same things you know it's it's amazing that's super important part because I think communication back to communication is huge right like and if you don't like that person it's going to feel forced and awkward and kind of going over a hump to try to communicate with them and that's the key you got to stay transparent you got to communicate because again if you have that separation you're not communicating you're not transparent who knows what the other person is doing at that point
 
oh agreed agreed most definitely I mean my business partner we talk about 20 20 25 times a day yeah and it's and most of it's business but other thing is personal hey how's the family doing how the kids doing you know anything going on blah blah blah but it's super important to also let your business partner know what's going on with you personally I think that's I think that's important as well because if if you're going through you know knock on wood you know something with your marriage I need
 
to know that I feel you know even if it's getting a little rough I need you to say hey you know my marriage is getting a little rough because I need to know okay if you're not here at business 100% I'm going to step up 120% to make sure that we're still good you know I think that's important AB for sure for sure and we do that even with like our team so with bur boot camp with some other businesses that we have we have leadership meetings and we make sure that everyone sh kind of personal things
 
what's going on keeping that transparent relationship up because it's it's important it affects um your personal life affects your business life as much as you don't wanted to most definitely no you're spot on there so I always say not all not all chefs not all chefs should own the restaurant not all attorneys should own their own practice you know what has really helped you to really own your own business and and you know go through the trial and errors and things like that to you know survive Co
 
to to run a successful you know Law Firm things like that yeah I mean I think one of the key things for entrepreneurs and people starting businesses you got to be a little bit crazy right you got to be a little bit crazy you got to be willing to take risks right you got to assess risks and and take them you can't be afraid to to just go out there and take action and do it um I think that attorneys on the other hand are trained not to take risks right they are trained to assess the risks but they're really
 
leaning to risk averse risers really leaning towards no whereas an entrepreneur is leaning towards yes yes so I think that I strike a really good balance between those two that's good um and I think that's what allows me to be an attorney at heart but then you know also be an entrepreneur and take risks and I think that's what my business partners appreciate as well I love that um I figure out how can we do it rather than can we do it right like that most attorneys will be like well we can't do it because of this or I advise
 
you not to do it because of that I will say look we can do it here's how yep right and here are the risks oh most definitely now you as the business partner if you're my partner we need to decide is it worth it or not yeah right cuz there's there's always risk involved so do you want to take no matter what you do there is risk you just have to make sure you take the calculated risk that's right you know and sometimes you may think it's calculated at that point in the moment and it turns out to not be
 
right so you have to have the ability to Pivot very quickly like you guys did with Co you have to have that ability to handle that stress and handle that pressure so you can power through for sure absolutely yeah no I love that where do you see you you think you know where do you see yourself uh you know growing uh triest you know where where do you see yourself with that and on to the Future yeah so I joined tribe vest of July of last year nice so it's been about um been about one year and we have
 
really developed um you know this this fund of Fund in a box right like you've probably heard about how the market is really shifting from the cgp model right to fun of funds because the is kind of you know they kind of started investigating people and you know these folks that had these cgps that were just raising capital and not doing anything else which everyone knows you're not supposed to do but everybody does it anyways yep um started looking for another solution and the fund the funds model has always been it is the solution
 
it's always been the solution it's not a new thing it's just a more you just people didn't know of it at the time at a high level yeah and and honestly it it's more complicated it's more expensive it's more expensive and there's just you know a lot more things to go into it so people just took the easy route did theot quote CP rout and and it you know I guess I'll say that it worked up until this point right like I guess you could say you got away with it or what have you um but the market is is
 
is Shifting or has shifted to the co or to the fun everything is fun to funs now that's all I'm seeing is fund to funds models training programs you know and fund to funds things like that you know it's definitely questionable I think as an investor I would ask if if I'm talking to a sponsor hey are you the lead sponsor or you a fun of funds because in in my eyes you're paying double fees you know to get into those opportunities don't get me wrong people need to make money people are giving you
 
great opportunities to invest and build your Capital um but there's definitely questions I feel like definitely needs to be involved yeah I mean there's always questions right I mean even when everyone was using the CP model it's like well who's actually the operating partner who's the lead sponsor who's actually going to execute the business plan after we closing this property and I think a lot of cgps were kind of masquerading as the operating partner like hey this is my deal I found the property I'm going to be doing this
 
executing this business plan in reality there's a lead sponsor who found the deal who's signing the loan documents who's going to execute the business plan and sometimes there passive investors don't even know they don't even know and and fund manager like you said kind of same it's the same thing right the fund manager should not be representing that they're the operating partner Som or anything like that um I know at tribe vest we we really emphasize that because the the vehicle that we use is an SPV
 
fund of fund where the the fund of fund is designed only to invest in one specific deal so we're not it's not a discretionary fund where you can do whatever we can do whereever whatever you want invest you know multiple deals or anything it is one deal so you're really just serving as a conduit uh to invest in a Target deal so it's very clear to the pive investors very spe specific if you invest in this fund of fund all your capital is going into this deal and we disclose those deal documents as well so those offering
 
documents are an exhibit to the fund of fund offering documents most definitely no I think that's super important and we have a fund that we've put together for car washes and before we really truly launch the fund we have we have those deals locked under and we're like look these are the deals we may add some more deals but these are the specific deals that we are buying and that the capital is going into yeah yep yeah for I think that's super important so you guys are really taking advantage of this
 
opportunity out in California um you see it definitely growing you know with your guys's portfolio out there oh for sure for sure I mean the fun to funds model we we've made it affordable right so the the problems with it were that it's complicated it's expensive those are the two B two biggest things you've got to get your if you're a fund manager who used to be a cgp depending on the lead sponsor to do everything for you now you've got to do all those things yeah accounting you know all bookkeeping all
 
of that you got to open a business banking account you got to form your LLC you've got to find a Securities attorney you've got to find a CPA you've got to manage your investors you got to find a platform all those things that the lead sponsor usually does yeah and then you're going to have to pay depending on the attorney you know anywhere from 15 to 30,000 absolutely uh you know on average some are even 50,000 from what I hear but normally the head attorney who's running the whole syndication will
 
have a deal where you can do a fund of funds at a cheaper amount but it's going to cost maybe 15 20,000 for you as a fund manager to open up your own fund right and you know that some CPS former CPS can't really raise Capital right like they own a deal and they say hey I can raise a million bucks easy and then they come up with 100,000 bucks or zero yeah right so if you do that with a fund of funds well now you an attorney 15,000 bucks or 25,000 bucks and you didn't raise any Capital you're screwed that's
 
a lot of money out of your pocket when you weren't able to get paid on that deal yep um but what we've done at triest is combined all all those things together love that we you with triest it's a fun to fun in a box it's basically done for you kind of a done for you program you know you you get your k1s we open your business banking account we form your LLC we do your offering documents we on board your investors so we send out electronic signatures of the offering documents quote unquote hurting the cats right
 
getting getting them to wire their funds basically taking the place of an investor relation which I will tell you I love our investors that will sign and wire right then and there but we do have those sum that will sign and then the wire is like pulling teeth and it comes to a point where I'm like look like I feel like I'm stepping my boundaries by keep asking you hey why are your Capital we need you know it's very difficult sometimes yeah it is it is and I can feel for him a little bit especially the first time
 
around ,000 bucks you're like whoa this is crazy wiring to a stranger or somebody you might have just had a couple of contacts you know we we advertise heavily on social media we only accept accredited investors as a 506c so we can advertise we advertise heavily on social media um I don't actually to be honest with you I don't think I've ever done a 506b that's awesome that's a great that's place to play I always6 coun people to do five sixc and only accept credit investors that's going to keep you safe yeah 100% you know and
 
it's it's a lot easier um but yeah you know I think it's it's super important to go that route and even with those new investors I definitely understand you know 50 200 300 you know 500,000 is a lot of capital from someone you you met on social media that's why you ask the right questions that's why you get references you understand the business model business strategy and at the end of the day though you have to take a risk you have to take a risk and a leite got the trigger and just do it yep got
 
to take action I love that you guys are doing that all inone I think that's huge yeah yeah and going back to to pricing man you the last Law Firm that I worked at huge Law Firm top three law firm in the world we charged $75,000 you bullsh out of the gate for a set of s now this was at the lead sponsor level but a lead sponsor documents and that's just for the initial drafts and then it's charged per hour no way yeah get started just to get started people don't realize how expensive creting a fund is it's
 
expensive yeah yeah and then some people you know there are you know these Boutique firms I mean even my Boutique firm we do it at a much lower cost and people are like whoa that's so expensive because they just haven't seen it I'm like you have no idea how expensive it actually can be oh I know do you do you see yourself uh going into any other practice of law oh I don't think so secur is where it's at man I mean I've I'm a fund manager I've syndicated deals myself as a lead sponsor you know I've
 
worked as a Securities attorney now for a number of years so it's it's kind of where my interest and my legal practice have kind of combined how do how do you keep up with your energy and your mindset your your your high energy your great mindset how do you keep up with that and cultivate that man I think you know we kind of touched on it before but we didn't quite get around to it it a lot of it is just trying to take care of yourself staying healthy man getting sleep that's super important right I
 
think a lot of entrepreneurs run themselves into the ground and they don't sleep man I don't care what time I get to bed I'm sleeping 7 hours so I I set my alarm clock for 7 hours after I really you do that after I lay down interesting I'm complete opposite oh yeah uh no matter what time I go to bed I wake up at 6:00 a.m. no matter what time uh Stephanie can tell you I'll send her emails at 3:00 4 a.m. in the morning you might get 2 hours might get 10 hours yep no never 10 no never o never over
 
seven okay I can't get over seven hours yeah I if I get over seven hours I feel joggy I feel like I've slept I've wasted my day um even on Saturdays and Sundays I will wake up boom and you know if whoever's in the my girl who's in the bed I'm in in my office at the home working you know at 6:00 a.m. on a Saturday that's how I'm wired if we get home at 1:00 from an evening you know out with friends which I rarely do 6:00 a.m. I'm up ready to go that's awesome man that's awesome and I think what helps you know I don't drink yeah don't
 
drink alcohol I don't care to um you know I drink water I drink too much lattes yeah uh but uh but yeah don't drank alcohol and I think that's helped tremendously sure not being in my system yeah that there's a huge movement now right towards not drinking my what's this new there's this new uh drink everyone's getting it's uh it's not it's we all know a virgin drink meaning no alcohol but a mocktail oh yeah every I'm hearing this everywhere everyone's just saying they're getting mocktails cuz they don't want to drink it there's like
 
mocktail bars there are I think there's some in Charlotte that are mocktail bars and they don't serve any alcohol at all um and I think a lot of people again I don't know if it was Co or whatever but a lot of people are very conscious with their health they're watching what they eat even you know with go again going to these grocery stores next time you go to the grocery store look at that this is bio-engineered chemicals you know a lot of people are watching that in what they're putting into their system for
 
sure for sure people are much more aware of it I mean I I'm a drinker I do drink which is fine yeah but I do I you know I did dry January and honestly you can just you can tell I mean you're poisoning your body with alcohol I think at this point everybody understands that they realize that and they choose either to do it or not but is poison to your body I mean that's what at the end of the day it is and for me personally I don't I don't care to wake up feeling you know joggy or anything like that I
 
care to wake up feeling great you know thriving and ready to go but alcohol does do that alcohol will do that to you and you'll definitely see the the weight I mean my lattes I see my lattes at my lower stomach and I'm like I got to do more ABS got to eat healthier got to drink the black coffee man I do so I drink the black coffee but when I'm out and about I'll stop and get a latte I I don't know I love I just love these lattes yeah I drink a ton of coffee so but mostly black coffee at home I I'll
 
make black coffee 100% at home black coffee but if I'm out and about traveling or something like that I'm like got to give me a latte yeah for sure but yeah man I mean it's it's staying healthy you got to keep yourself healthy to be able to perform mentally yeah you have to you have to these days especially with all this bioengineered you know chemicals all this type of food out there that is just unhealthy for you you have to really watch what you eat for sure for sure you got to get that work out in I mean if I'm not working if
 
I don't work out for like 2 days in a row I'm going I'm going like stir crazy oh I am too I am too I work out every single day and even if I can't get a full like hard workout in I'm like okay I'm going to walk around the block like I'm going to and I and I now have a tread meal under my desk where I'm like I'm going to at least walk one mile because I know I can't get a full workout in at the gym today so I'm at least going to walk one mile because I I have to keep my body doing something for sure there's something about it it just
 
clears your mind out right like it just it gives you Clarity by working out when when you don't work out for a couple of days man it's just like fog just I just feel foggy it no 100% you don't feel sharp I'm a big I'm a big fan of the sauna and the steam room yeah I love a nice sauna in the steam room I I do it before I work out and after I work out and I can stay in there for 30 minutes each like I love it in there um but I I think you know adopting that I'm looking into that red light therapy I don't know
 
if you've looked into it I've heard of it I've seen it but I haven't done a ton of research on it yet I've done some research on it I'm doing more on it though I don't know enough to be dangerous but I'm it's definitely everything I'm reading is very highly beneficial you get that like built into the sauna right I've SE if you get the home Sona too see I'm I'm bougie I work on a lifetime uh they don't have it there um but uh hopefully they do soon um but yeah you can get one of those home saas that also have the red light
 
therapy in it yeah yeah yeah I think I think that's huge um from what I've done with research is very beneficial for your body there you go let me know let me know what you what you find out I will I'll definitely let you know on that so I love what you guys are doing out in La you know really maximizing what that current law is out there do you see yourself you know you guys possibly getting into the multif family space of large multif family because I know that's what when you and I first met we
 
we were doing that all that you see yourself going back into that route sure man I mean when the market makes sense and I'm not saying it doesn't make sense but I I don't have a fully build out team right that that's able to find and identify great deals and that takes that takes a lot takes time effort all that exactly so I don't have that fully built out team but when it makes sense to partner with somebody that does have that team and I like the deal certainly certainly no I I don't I don't blame you
 
I think right now there's still a huge disconnect um I will have to agree with Grant cordone on this is that um I watched a video and he said um right now it's going to be very difficult to put push rents which I've said before and I agree with uh he's given a timeline about 2026 and then uh from there he feels that rents are going to Skyrocket substanti I you know right now it's going be very difficult push R you're not going to be able to for a good couple years so how are you undering you know back in the
 
day right after covid with the c rate compression everyone's underwriting four five 7% rent growth you know every single year and it's like you can't do that now and that's when I I saw the really the writing on the wall um and then from there you know if if that it's going to be like that for the next couple years till 2026 you know after that is it going to spike or is it not you know there's going to be a lot of Supply coming on the market how how what's it going to look like you know it's unpredictable man it's tough
 
anybody that tells you that they know the answer they they don't know they might be taking a good guess but they don't know they don't know I think you're going to see a lot of people switch asset classes like we did you know we're in the car War sector we're going to stay in the car War sector um you know will we get into Hospitality or retail here in Charlotte I mean I'd be dumb not to get into retail here in Charlotte or Hospitality we all know Charlotte's booming um it's a wild City so you getting our hands on great
 
property great real estate it may make sense yeah you you got to stay Nimble you got to stay Nimble you you can't just uh you can't just stay in one vertical one industry one asset type just because that's you know what you've done in the past corre that might not make sense right now today's market I think we saw a lot of sponsors in 2023 get into that situation where uh you know they were all in multif family and they couldn't pivot as fast enough and now they all have coaching programs or they're all doing something
 
you know because they have to keep the lights on at the end of the day acquisition feeds to keep the lights on and the employees in the office yeah yeah I think they got I think a lot of folks felt pressured to stay in multif family because they've always preached it right they preached to their investors multifam is it like that this is the the thing the only thing right and now they're going to go and oh what if I pivot and say that you know car washes or something they had a they had trouble
 
kind of changing their message but in in all honesty you know that's fine you can change your message you can change your M data is always coming to us every single second we got these cell phones that are pushing data to us and if you find data that's valuable enough to make a pivot do it right you know that's what we did we said look multif family doesn't make sense it's not going to make sense for the next three to four years in our opinion it's going to be very difficult to push rents so if you
 
want cash flow you come invest with us with our multi or our car washes they are high cash flow and great thing they're also High tax benefits so if you want High cash flow and high tax benefits come invest in in our car washes but multif family doesn't make sense right now you know we say all time with adus we're like look there's a very small window we think here in California where we can maximize the value of these single family properties that are on a decent sized lot and we can crotch it in
 
this but we and and this is the way to go instead of multif family right now because the market is different 100% it's different for 4 years ago nothing has changed right four years ago multif family was right and it has been but now it might not be most definitely and I think it's super important to keep your investors well educated ahead of time because you're going to raise and we don't get me wrong we have investors that have been with us for all six years of since we've had the company and some
 
of them are like hey it's a new asset class we want to see how you do yeah you know then we have someone's like hey we've been with you six years here take it we know you're going to do good exactly you know so they're all going to have a different appetite and it's just very important to keep them well educated and it goes back communication communicate with them not only you're communicating with them on the deals that you have but communicate with them with what your company's doing you know
 
what you're pivoting to what you're seeing in the market we went from monthly updates to all of our investor base not just uh or so all of our sites we do bi-weekly but with uh our all of our investors that are in our database we now do every Saturday at 12 o'clock you get our Saturday edition of our weekly update yeah so we're updating you on a weekly basis now on just general stuff what's going on the market what are we seeing what are we reading you know everything so you can be well adversed and and knowledgeable about the
 
space yeah for sure and I think in this environment it makes sense right CU it's it's a lot more unpredictable now especially during an election year than it was let's say a few years ago when everything's just through the roof everything's just going up you can you can tell me today what it's going to be next week and next month guess what everything's going up everything's fine but now it's like Bitcoin you don't know right now it's different yeah every single day is a new day you don't know what's going to happen yeah and it's and
 
it's super important cuz we have a crazy election coming up especially with the events that have occurred you know with both sides of the party we have a crazy election coming up so you know it's also going to create a crazy Market environment like I said I think pow's going to drop rates quarter a point before the election happens I think so um and and you know one part is going to say look they're doing the job you know and uh so I think it's going to be a wild election I think wildest election
 
we've ever seen but I think it's also important to go out there and whoever you want to vote for go vote you know I think that's super important because that will dictate how the economy is going to be uh situated in 2025 and Beyond yeah agreed agreed so Seth wealth of knowledge I love what you guys are doing in California um when you get back out here I know you only get back out here about once a year but when you get back out here let's have you back on the podcast to hear what you guys you know
 
have accomplished out there in the California Market with that very Niche uh opportunity that you're seeing that the government's allowing so I love what you guys are doing out there let's stay in touch I really enjoyed you coming on absolutely man appreciate by brother thank you for tuning in to the chrisner show we hope you enjoyed today's episode and gained valuable insight to help you along your journey don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform if you have
 
any questions or topics that you would like to cover feel free to reach out directly to me shoot me a message on Instagram at chrisoro uncore until next time keep pushing forward and stay inspired
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR8RiGLlZMA&t=2732s
https://www.instagram.com/p/DE2qgrkTWCJ/
https://www.instagram.com/chris_salerno_/
https://www.facebook.com/qccapitalgroup/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/qc-capital/
https://www.facebook.com/chris.salerno/
https://www.threads.com/@chris_saerno_?xmt=AQF0aeyEZLe6NARr-e497ZYNtYK2VL_qriOgoDgSzUhsoa8
https://www.linkedin.com/in/salernochris/https://qccapitalgroup.com/
Seth Bradley’s Links:
https://x.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
www.facebook.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.threads.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.instagram.com/sethbradleyesq/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbradleyesq/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en

MDM 01 | Million Dollar Monday with Joe Fairless

Title: Million Dollar Monday - Joe Fairless
In this episode, Seth Bradley and Joe Fairless, Joe Fairless reveals that he made both his first and last million dollars through apartment deal exits. Although Joe Fairless lost his first million on his very first deal, his net worth eventually surpassed one million dollars after exiting his seventh or eighth apartment investment. Joe Fairless emphasizes the power of maintaining a singular focus on multifamily investing as the foundation of his continued success, reinforcing his well-known mantra that “riches are in the niches.”
Links to Watch and Subscribe:
https://youtu.be/WmNK-UcCUa4
Bullet Point Highlights:
First and last million came from apartment deal exits
Lost his first million on his very first deal
Reached $1 million net worth after the seventh or eighth deal
Focused entirely on multifamily apartment investing
Believes in the philosophy: "Riches are in the niches"
Plans to continue scaling by sticking with apartment deals
Transcript:
Joe Fairless (00:00.11)
So how did you make your first million dollars?
 
Same way I made my last one. So spoiler alert, it's selling when a deal exited. was probably like the seventh or eighth deal. One million dollars on one transaction, right? Is that true?
 
It's a million dollars in your net worth.
 
So...
 
What puts you over the edge there? How did you grow that first million?
 
Seth Bradley (00:29.962)
I lost my first million before I ever came across it. That was on the very first deal. It would probably be through an exit of a deal.
 
Sure, yeah and I'll bet it's probably similar. mean how are you gonna, how are you planning on making your next million dollars? Same thing, the apartments. All about apartments man, I love it. Singular focus, that's where it's at. mean, riches are in the niches.
 
same thing.
 
Seth Bradley (00:57.775)
Yep.
Yup. Yup. Awesome
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
Seth Bradley’s Links:
https://x.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
www.facebook.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.threads.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.instagram.com/sethbradleyesq/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbradleyesq/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en
Joe Fairless’s Links:
https://www.facebook.com/imjoefairless
https://x.com/joefairless
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joefairless/
https://ashcroftcapital.com/our-team/joe-fairless/
https://www.instagram.com/besteverpodcast/?hl=en

T1C 01 | The 1% Closer with Joe Fairless

Title: The 1% Closer - Joe Fairless
In this episode, Joe Fairless emphasizes that what sets him apart from others is consistently doing what he says he will do, both to others and to himself. Joe Fairless focuses on character over reputation, believing that who you are when no one is watching matters far more than how others perceive you. He explains that true discipline and integrity are measured by keeping promises to yourself, whether it’s finishing a solo run, sticking to a commitment, or getting up with your alarm when you said you would. Joe Fairless reminds listeners that real success begins with accountability and the quiet moments when no one else is watching.
Links to Watch and Subscribe:
https://youtu.be/X5Vqd1AifiE
Bullet Point Highlights:
Stands out by consistently doing what they say they'll do
Focuses on character, not reputation — character is who you are when no one’s watching
Values self-discipline and holding personal promises
Examples include finishing personal challenges and getting up with the alarm
Belief: integrity is shown in how you act when no one else is holding you accountable
Transcript:
Alright, you're clearly in the top 1 % of what you do. What is it about you that separates you from the rest of the field?
 
I do what I say I'm gonna do and sadly that separates me from a lot of people, not all people. That's a big focus of mine. And it's not about my... I recently read something that resonated and that was don't focus on your reputation, focus on your character. A reputation is such a vanity metric but the character is who you are when no one's looking and being proud of who you are and that's vital to me.
 
Yeah, and it's not just saying what you're going to do to other people, but also with yourself, right? To yourself.
 
Good point. Yeah, I'm on those runs and I can just stop whenever I want, but I'll know. I'll know I didn't go through this made up finish line that I had predetermined in my head. And there's something to be said there. I'm glad you brought that up.
 
For sure. Yeah, that's the key, right? It's not just when somebody, when it's dependent on somebody else or somebody else is watching. It's, you know, what do you do when nobody's watching and what do you do when it's just a promise to yourself? Do you follow through? Do you keep those promises? Things as easy as, when you set your alarm in the morning and you wake up, do you get up or do hit the snooze button? Like you made a promise to yourself the night before to wake up and get up when that alarm goes off. Do you keep that promise?
Links from the Show and Guest Info and Links:
Seth Bradley’s Links:
https://x.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.youtube.com/@sethbradleyesq
www.facebook.com/sethbradleyesq
https://www.threads.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.instagram.com/sethbradleyesq/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethbradleyesq/
https://passiveincomeattorney.com/seth-bradley/
https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/sethbradleyesq
https://medium.com/@sethbradleyesq
https://www.tiktok.com/@sethbradleyesq?lang=en
Joe Fairless’s Links:
https://www.facebook.com/imjoefairless
https://x.com/joefairless
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joefairless/
https://ashcroftcapital.com/our-team/joe-fairless/
https://www.instagram.com/besteverpodcast/?hl=en